JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for HERFORUM Archives


HERFORUM Archives

HERFORUM Archives


HERFORUM@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

HERFORUM Home

HERFORUM Home

HERFORUM  January 2010

HERFORUM January 2010

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: Narrower Terms: Context

From:

Crispin Flower <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Issues related to Historic Environment Records <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 13 Jan 2010 20:20:39 -0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (227 lines)

eeek, just had another thought... has anyone tested this behaviour on the Heritage Gateway?
We definitely set the "HBSMR Gateway" up to include narrow terms by default,  so a search for CAIRN should find CLEARANCE CAIRNs and BURIAL CAIRNs (etc); and I think we probably took care of the child terms "problem" at the time, but now I'm worried perhaps not...
I'll check this when back in the office, and perhaps someone with data in the Heritage Gateway could test for this? (advanced search)
best wishes
Crispin

________________________________

From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records on behalf of CARLISLE, Philip
Sent: Wed 13/01/2010 15:45
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Narrower Terms: Context



Hi Sylvina,

Yes sorry, re-reading it, does look as if we're just letting you know rather than getting involved.

 

With regards to CAIRN we think the sensible option is to remove it as a broader term of BURIAL CAIRN and CLEARANCE CAIRN and move it to MONUMENT <BY FORM>.

 

BURIAL CAIRN would then float under FUNERARY SITE and CAIRN (in monument <by form>) and similarly CLEARANCE CAIRN would just float under AG and SUB.

 

So CAIRN may have been solved (let us know if you think this solution works/doesn't work etc) but we still have to look at homographing the other terms.

 

Any suggestions anyone?

 

Phil

 

 

Phil Carlisle

Data Standards Supervisor

English Heritage

National Monuments Record Centre

Kemble Drive 

Swindon

SN2 2GZ

+44 (0)1793 414824

 

http://thesaurus.english-heritage.org.uk/

 

The information contained within this e-mail is confidential and may be privileged. It is intended for the addressee only. If you have received the e-mail in error, please inform the sender and delete it from your system. The contents of this e-mail must not be disclosed to anyone else or copied without the sender's consent.

Any views and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of English Heritage. English Heritage will not take any responsibility for the views of the author.

P Please do not print this e-mail unless you really need to

-----Original Message-----
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Sylvina Tilbury
Sent: 13 January 2010 15:20
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Narrower Terms: Context

 

Hello Phil

 

To be fair, your email wasn't really presented as a possible option but as the solution, but I'm glad that you're open to discussion on this one. As an HBSMR user, I for one am all too aware of the background to this as the Cairn problem has been a real bugbear of mine. 

 

Looking at the Monument <By Form> class, it seems to have been used in a similar way before so I wouldn't have any objection to that solution. Surely though you would not then need to break it down into Cairn (Agricultural) and Cairn (Ritual) etc. , so your broad term could just be Cairn? There are several other types of cairn in the thesaurus - presumably these would all be assigned as narrow terms under the proposed broad term under Monument <By Form>? 

 

Sylvina

Sylvina Tilbury | HER Officer | Planning & Development Service | Highland Council

Glenurquhart Road, Inverness, IV3 5NX | T: 01463 702503 | F: 01463 702298

Highland HER: http://her.highland.gov.uk <http://her.highland.gov.uk/>  

-----Original Message-----
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of CARLISLE, Philip
Sent: 13 January 2010 14:55
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Narrower Terms: Context

 

Dear all,

I though it might be useful to provide some context behind the proposed changes to the terms I posted this morning.

 

The Data Standards Unit is undertaking this work at the behest of a large proportion of the HER community. Crispin Flower on behalf of the HBMSMR users group sent me the following back in September.

 

 

Hi Phil

The problem with the thesaurus narrow terms keeps cropping up, with HBSMR users getting unexpected/incorrect results to searches. For example, we have recently had Staffordshire having trouble searching for BRIDGE and its narrow terms, because the various instances of BRIDGE have different narrow terms. They are using the latest v10 thesaurus release.

When we last discussed this in April 2008, we provided a list of the worst offending terms (see below), and you were going to see if and when fixing this could be scheduled into the DSU work programme - has there been any progress here?

If this is not going to happen within a useful timescale, we'll together need to look into other ways of resolving this, i.e. to make changes in HBSMR to how the searching works (which could be resourced either by the users' "Development Reserve" or by EH).

 

Best wishes

Crispin

 

Unlike the EH software which returns all instances of a term and its narrow terms (so a search on CAIRN would also bring back CLEARANCE CAIRN as well as BURIAL CAIRN) the exeGesIS software searches on the instance (ie. position in the hierarchy) and its narrower terms which may differ, thus returning "unexpected/incorrect" results.

 

To solve this problem Crispin supplied us with a copy of a spreadsheet with the 'problematic' terms in and for the most part these were easy enough to fix as there was no problem with the hierarchical positions. Only the 12 terms which I sent earlier need further work.

 

What the solutions for those terms are is for us as a community to decide. All we (DSU) are trying to do is to provide a quick fix for a large proportion of the community.


What I sent out this morning was an EXAMPLE of one approach and, as I replied to Andrew Nicholson off list, we may end up having a catch all term like CAIRN (MONUMENT) under MONUMENT <BY FORM> to solve the problems where the interpretation is uncertain (and no, Chris building uncertainty into the thesaurus is not an option!).

 

So by all means discuss the problem terms but don't shoot the messenger.

 

 

Phil

 

 

 

Phil Carlisle

Data Standards Supervisor

English Heritage

National Monuments Record Centre

Kemble Drive 

Swindon

SN2 2GZ

+44 (0)1793 414824

 

http://thesaurus.english-heritage.org.uk/

 

The information contained within this e-mail is confidential and may be privileged. It is intended for the addressee only. If you have received the e-mail in error, please inform the sender and delete it from your system. The contents of this e-mail must not be disclosed to anyone else or copied without the sender's consent.

Any views and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of English Heritage. English Heritage will not take any responsibility for the views of the author.

P Please do not print this e-mail unless you really need to

 

 

________________________________

This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
http://www.netintelligence.com/email

________________________________


Unless related to the business of The Highland Council, the views or opinions expressed within this email are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect those of The Highland Council, or associated bodies, nor does this email form part of any contract unless so stated. 

________________________________


Concerned about how climate change may affect older properties? What about saving energy? 
Visit our new website www.climatechangeandyourhome.org.uk <http://www.climatechangeandyourhome.org.uk/>  today. 

This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the 
views of English Heritage unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it 
from your system and notify the sender immediately. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in 
any way nor act in reliance on it. Any information sent to English Heritage may become publicly available. 
________________________________


Concerned about how climate change may affect older properties? What about saving energy? 
Visit our new website www.climatechangeandyourhome.org.uk <http://www.climatechangeandyourhome.org.uk/>  today. 

This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the 
views of English Heritage unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it 
from your system and notify the sender immediately. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in 
any way nor act in reliance on it. Any information sent to English Heritage may become publicly available. 

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003
December 2002
November 2002
October 2002
September 2002
August 2002
July 2002
June 2002
May 2002
April 2002
March 2002
February 2002
January 2002
December 2001
November 2001
October 2001
September 2001
August 2001
July 2001
June 2001
May 2001
April 2001
March 2001
February 2001
January 2001
December 2000
November 2000
October 2000
September 2000
August 2000
July 2000
June 2000
May 2000
April 2000
March 2000
February 2000
January 2000
December 1999
November 1999
October 1999
September 1999
August 1999
July 1999
June 1999


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager