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CCP4BB  November 2009

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Subject:

Re: units of the B factor

From:

Marc SCHILTZ <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Marc SCHILTZ <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:26:08 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

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Parts/Attachments

text/plain (98 lines)

This is absolutely correct. Radian is in fact just another symbol for 1.

Thus : 1 rad = 1

 From the official SI documentation
(http://www.bipm.org/en/si/si_brochure)(section 2.2 - table 3) :

"The radian and steradian are special names for the number one that
may be used to convey information about the quantity concerned. In
practice the symbols rad and sr are used where appropriate, but the
symbol for the derived unit one is generally omitted in specifying the
values of dimensionless quantities."

Marc




Quoting Ian Tickle <[log in to unmask]>:

>      Back to the original problem: what are the units of B and
>> <u_x^2>?  I haven't been able to work that out.  The first
>> wack is to say the B occurs in the term
>>
>>      Exp( -B (Sin(theta)/lambda)^2)
>>
>> and we've learned that the unit of Sin(theta)/lamda is 1/Angstrom
>> and the argument of Exp, like Sin, must be radian.  This means
>> that the units of B must be A^2 radian.  Since B = 8 Pi^2 <u_x^2>
>> the units of 8 Pi^2 <u_x^2> must also be A^2 radian, but the
>> units of <u_x^2> are determined by the units of 8 Pi^2.  I
>> can't figure out the units of that without understanding the
>> defining equation, which is in the OPDXr somewhere.  I suspect
>> there are additional, hidden, units in that definition.  The
>> basic definition would start with the deviation of scattering
>> points from the Miller planes and those deviations are probably
>> defined in cycle or radian and later converted to Angstrom so
>> there are conversion factors present from the beginning.
>>
>>     I'm sure that if the MS sits down with the OPDXr and follows
>> all these units through he will uncover the units of B, 8 Pi^2,
>> and <u_x^2> and the mystery will be solved.  If he doesn't do
>> it, I'll have to sit down with the book myself, and that will
>> make my head hurt.
>
> Hi Dale
>
> A nice entertaining read for a Sunday afternoon, but I think you can
> only get so far with this argument and then it breaks down, as evidenced
> by the fact that eventually you got stuck!  I think the problem arises
> in your assertion that the argument of 'exp' must be in units of
> radians.  IMO it can also be in units of radians^2 (or radians^n where n
> is any unitless number, integer or real, including zero for that
> matter!) - and this seems to be precisely what happens here.  Having a
> function whose argument can apparently have any one of an infinite
> number of units is somewhat of an embarrassment! - of course that must
> mean that the argument actually has no units.  So in essence I'm saying
> that quantities in radians have to be treated as unitless, contrary to
> your earlier assertions.
>
> So the 'units' (accepting for the moment that the radian is a valid
> unit) of B are actually A^2 radian^2, and so the 'units' of 8pi^2 (it
> comes from 2(2pi)^2) are radian^2 as expected.  However since I think
> I've demonstrated that the radian is not a valid unit, then the units of
> B are indeed A^2!
>
> Cheers
>
> -- Ian
>
>
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