I share your concern. In the US it's a done deal. 
But the journals aren't a part of the problem. 
There have been journals of academic research and 
criticism for a long time, and their impact on 
the making of poetry or its reception has been limited and transitory.


>Also, my concerns are more about the way poetry is becoming hedged
>in by academia in general rather than the particular contents this
>journal, which is merely another symptom of such.
>
>
>
>On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 02:49:50 -0700, Sean Bonney
><[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> >you ignored my question Jeffrey. have you read the journal yet?
> >
> >http://abandonedbuildings.blogspot.com/
> >
> >--- On Fri, 23/10/09, Jeffrey Side <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> >From: Jeffrey Side <[log in to unmask]>
> >Subject: Re: Journal of British and Irish Innovative Poetry launch at
>Birkbeck (Weds 21st October 2009)
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Date: Friday, 23 October, 2009, 12:58 AM
> >
> >I don’t think the journal will tell us how poetry should be written,
>but
> >the implication for me is that because Robert is somewhat fixated on
> >poetics as an aesthetic act in itself (or so it seems) then his influence
> >could create a sensibility for the journal that reflects this. I’m not
> >saying this is inevitable, but it could be the case if not checked. This
>is
> >why I am questioning the peer-review arrangements of the journal, as
>I
> >understand them from what Elizabeth James has said.
> >
> >Robert has said, ‘Poetics only makes sense if your sense of art,
>artifice,
> >artificer, is concentrated on the act of making, rather than self-
> >expression’ (See his ‘The Necessity of Poetics’). Whilst I
>don’t advocate
> >self-expression as something to be desired (at least if taken at face
> >value) nor do I see the necessity for Robert’s insistence that
>poetics
> >can only have significance if it revolves around the “act of
>making�.
> >
> >The consequences of this approach would be that a particular
>work’s
> >reception becomes secondary to the means of its production; where,
>in
> >effect, the apologia for the work’s production becomes more
>important
> >than the work itself, or its affects on readers. In such a situation, the
> >apologia becomes the artefact and the poem almost the explanation
>for
> >it.
> >
> >Of course such a theory should have a voice in the journal, but not the
> >presiding one.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 13:44:17 -0700, Sean Bonney
> ><[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> >>Jeffrey, could you please give some evidence regarding your 'feeling'
> >that the journal is going to tell us how poetry should be written? I've
> >seen the first issue (and I'm very curious as to whether you have),
>and
> >none of the articles seem to me to be making any claims as to how
> >poetry 'should' be written.
> >>
> >>http://abandonedbuildings.blogspot.com/
> >>
> >>--- On Thu, 22/10/09, Jeffrey Side <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>
> >>From: Jeffrey Side <[log in to unmask]>
> >>Subject: Re: Journal of British and Irish Innovative Poetry launch at
> >Birkbeck (Weds 21st October 2009)
> >>To: [log in to unmask]
> >>Date: Thursday, 22 October, 2009, 3:01 PM
> >>
> >>Sean, I'm not against academic journals if they are about the study
>of
> >>poetry rather than concentrating on how it should be written etc.
>And
> >I
> >>get the feeling that this journal may lead to this, having read some
>of
> >>Robert’s theories on practice. Only time will tell, however.
> >>
> >>I'm all for peer-review, but not when used for innovative writing
> >theory,
> >>the two seem almost an oxymoron. Would the various poetic
> >>manifestos of the early part of the 20th century passed a peer-
>review
> >>process? I doubt it.
> >>
> >>Also, if the editorial board for the journal are also the peer-reviewers
> >>then is not a healthy state of affairs for any journal. If the board
>must
> >>do the reviewing then it is a mistake for them to be named publicly.
> >>Peer-review is all about anonymity.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 03:01:20 -0700, Sean Bonney
> >><[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>
> >>>Jeff / would you rather academics didn't talk about 'innovative'
> >poetry?
> >>its not as if the appearance of the journal means that poetry is
> >>suddenly locked up in the university and no-one else can talk about
>it.
> >>maybe, instead, it can work alongside non-academic activities -
> >>Openned, The Other Room and suchlike. I think the kneejerk
>dismissal
> >>of universities going on round here is rather reactionary, as if it was
> >>still the 1950s and universities were still strictly for the middle and
> >>upper classes, which is no longer the case, and hasn't been for a
>long
> >>time (and, Jeff, on your part rather hypocritical, seeing as only a few
> >>weeks ago you were trying to get us all to read your thesis, and
> >telling
> >>us how a chapter of it was about to be published in a peer reviewed
> >>journal etc).
> >>>
> >>>its also rather alarming to see people lining up to slag off a
> >magazine
> >>they haven't even seen yet. maybe its going to be great. give it a
> >>chance, yeh?
> >>>
> >>>Sean
> >>>
> >>>http://abandonedbuildings.blogspot.com/
> >>>
> >>>--- On Wed, 21/10/09, Jeffrey Side <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>From: Jeffrey Side <[log in to unmask]>
> >>>Subject: Re: Journal of British and Irish Innovative Poetry launch at
> >>Birkbeck (Weds 21st October 2009)
> >>>To: [log in to unmask]
> >>>Date: Wednesday, 21 October, 2009, 7:22 PM
> >>>
> >>>Geraldine, I don’t feel threatened personally
>as I do not
> >align
> >>myself to
> >>>any particular poetic school. But I see the â€Å
>“acadamisationâ
> >€� of
> >>poetry as
> >>>largely unfavourable to its larger practice and dissemination
>without
> >>the
> >>>academy. I see poetry as a cottage industry, not as a corporation.
> >We
> >>>have seen how once an art form is passed over to the academy, its
> >>>vitality is weakened.
> >>>
> >>>Besides, I think that academic study of  â€Å
>“writing practiceâ
> >€� as
> >>opposed
> >>>to merely studying the reception of poetry is too prescriptive an
> >>>approach to poetic composition. Poets should be allowed to choose
> >>how
> >>>they approach composition, without concerning themselves about
> >>>having to formulate a contrived rationale to explain how they do
> >it.ÂÂÂ
> >>>This is an approach I don’t think Robert or
>Scott would find
> >>appealing.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 17:33:23 +0100, Geraldine Monk
> >>><[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Jeffrey,
> >>>>You seem aggressively negative and confrontational about this
> >>>journal.  Do you feel it threatens you personally because
>that is
> >how
> >>>your constant anxieties are coming across.ÂÂÂ
> >>>>
> >>>>Like Alison says (and Mark echoes here) who wants a beige
>journal
> >>or
> >>>even worse taupe - yuk!ÂÂÂ
> >>>>
> >>>>G.
> >>>>  ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>  From: Jeffrey Side
> >>>>  To: [log in to unmask]
> >>>>  Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 4:41 PM
> >>>>  Subject: Re: Journal of British and Irish Innovative
>Poetry
> >launch
> >>at
> >>>Birkbeck (Weds 21st October 2009)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>  I think this journal, though, is setting out to be less
>impartial
> >and
> >>>more
> >>>>  catholic. If this is not the case, then fair enough, but it
>should
> >>come
> >>>>  clean about it.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>  On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 11:33:23 -0400, Mark Weiss
> >>>>  <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>  >Does anybody really want an impartial journal? It's
>not a
> >trial by
> >>>>  >jury--any journal worth its salt casts a wide net but
>develops
> >a
> >>>>  personality.
> >>>>  >
> >>>>  >At 11:29 AM 10/21/2009, you wrote:
> >>>>  >>Quote: "It's usually not a list of peer-reviewers, but
>of
> >>advisors
> >>>who
> >>>>  >>funnel the work of others to the journal."
> >>>>  >>
> >>>>  >>
> >>>>  >>Mark, that is even more of a concern, as impartiality
>will be
> >>>>  threatened.
> >>>>  >>So, given this funnelling by these advisors who are
>also the
> >>peer-
> >>>>  >>reviewers, how much credibility can we now give
>this
> >venture?
> >>>>  >>
> >>>>  >>This could lead to yet another clique forming within
>the non-
> >>>>  mainstream
> >>>>  >>arena.
> >>>>  >>
> >>>>  >>
> >>>>  >>On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 11:23:24 -0400, Mark Weiss
> >>>>  >><[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>>>  >>
> >>>>  >> >It's usually not a list of peer-reviewers, but of
>advisors
> >who
> >>>funnel
> >>>>  >> >the work of others to the journal.
> >>>>  >> >
> >>>>  >> >At 11:14 AM 10/21/2009, you wrote:
> >>>>  >> >>When you say:
> >>>>  >> >>
> >>>>  >> >>"The people on the editorial board by the way
>are
> >basically
> >>>there
> >>>>  as
> >>>>  >> >>peer-reviewers"
> >>>>  >> >>
> >>>>  >> >>This means that anonymity will be taken out of
>the
> >peer-
> >>>review
> >>>>  >>process-
> >>>>  >> >>-this can't be a good thing surely? For peer
>review to
> >work
> >>>>  properly
> >>>>  >>one
> >>>>  >> >>shouldn't know who is likely to be vetting their
> >>contributions.
> >>>It
> >>>>  could
> >>>>  >> >>lead to people being unwilling to submit work,
>which
> >would
> >>>>  >>detrimental
> >>>>  >> >>to the aims of the journal.
> >>>>  >> >>
> >>>>  >> >>
> >>>>  >> >>
> >>>>  >> >>On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 22:31:39 +0100, Elizabeth
>James
> >>>>  >> >><[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>>>  >> >>
> >>>>  >> >> >Quite. Consider the possibility that academic
> >discourse
> >>>might
> >>>>  >>actually
> >>>>  >> >>be as
> >>>>  >> >> >interesting and rewarding, intellectually /
>creatively,
> >as
> >>>poetry
> >>>>  >>(reading
> >>>>  >> >> >or writing); and then getting to be allowed to
>apply
> >that
> >>>mind,
> >>>>  in
> >>>>  >>work
> >>>>  >> >> >time, to the exciting, difficult and intelligent
>poetry
> >you
> >>>already
> >>>>  >>love in
> >>>>  >> >> >the evenings ... To me it looks like a coup,
>rather
> >than a
> >>>>  defence.
> >>>>  >> >> >
> >>>>  >> >> >The proclaimed inclusion of 'poetics' will
>complicate
> >that
> >>>>  argument,
> >>>>  >> >> >admittedly.
> >>>>  >> >> >
> >>>>  >> >> >The people on the editorial board by the way
>are
> >>basically
> >>>>  there as
> >>>>  >> >> >peer-reviewers, and do'nt run the journal.
>Well that's
> >>how it
> >>>is
> >>>>  for
> >>>>  >>me
> >>>>  >> >> >anyway. I am proud to be among them, furry
>hoodies
> >>and
> >>>Latin
> >>>>  >>graces
> >>>>  >> >> >notwithstanding ...
> >>>>  >> >> >e
> >>>>  >> >> >
> >>>>  >> >> >----- Original Message -----
> >>>>  >> >> >From: "Alison Croggon"
><[log in to unmask]>
> >>>>  >> >> >
> >>>>  >> >> >Gosh. That seems fairly sweeping. What if,
>rather
> >than
> >>>>  stemming
> >>>>  >>from
> >>>>  >> >> >"insecurity", it's simply that it's interesting
>and
> >>stimulating
> >>>to
> >>>>  >> >> >think in a disciplined way about practice?
>(Sorry,
> >>praxis...) I
> >>>>  >> >> >certainly find such things interesting to read.
>And I
> >just
> >>>don't
> >>>>  get
> >>>>  >> >> >this idea that journals of whatever stripe
>ought to be
> >>wholly
> >>>>  >>without
> >>>>  >> >> >agendas, since I don't understand how that
>would be
> >at
> >>all
> >>>>  >>desirable
> >>>>  >> >> >or interesting - surely it would just mean
>beige all
> >>round? I
> >>>And
> >>>>  >> >> >don't we all, as Borges pointed out, make our
>own
> >>canons?
> >>>>  >> >> >
> >>>>  >> >> >xA
> >>>>  >> >
> >>>>  >> >Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of
>Cuban
> >Poetry
> >>>>  (University
> >>>>  >> >of California Press).
> >>>>  >> >Forthcoming in November 2009.
> >>>>  >> >http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
> >>>>  >
> >>>>  >Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban
>Poetry
> >>>(University
> >>>>  >of California Press).
> >>>>  >Forthcoming in November 2009.
> >>>>  >http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>-------------------------------------------- 
> ----------------------------------
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>  No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>>>  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >>>>  Version: 8.5.423 / Virus Database: 270.14.24/2449 -
>Release
> >>Date:
> >>>10/20/09 18:42:00
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>Send instant messages to your online friends
> >>http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
> >>
> >
>
>Send instant messages to your online friends
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Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban 
Poetry (University of California Press).
Forthcoming in November 2009.
http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland