OK, that's not even remotely what I said. I
should have thought that context would make clear
that the "it" I referred to was clearly the Kent
Johnson/Kenny Goldsmith brouhaha and not
conceptualism per se. But the predictable seems
to be happening--less light, more heat. I'm
sincerely interested in whether there's something
analogous happening in Britain and Ireland these
days, I apologize for my ignorance and know no
other way to alleviate it than by asking.
But if you'd rather fight, let's take it outside.
No reason to bother the rest of the pub's patrons. B/c, please.
Mark
At 03:36 PM 10/2/2009, you wrote:
>Ridick! hombre. You're the one that suggested
>the impertinency of talk about the conceptual
>here, not me. What's not "British & Irish" about the conceptual?
>
>
>On Fri, 2 Oct 2009, Mark Weiss wrote:
>
>>I think my subsequent post covers this. Maybe
>>you should say what's B&I about the conceptual.
>>I for one have no idea what's going on in that regard in the UK and Ireland.
>>
>>Mark
>>
>>At 02:45 PM 10/2/2009, you wrote:
>>>Perfectly clear, and rather summarily
>>>proscriptive. My question, clear too: what's
>>>not "British and Irish" about the "conceptual"?
>>>
>>>On Fri, 2 Oct 2009, Mark Weiss wrote:
>>>
>>>>Wrong venue for the discussion, as it has
>>>>nothing to do with British and Irish poetry.
>>>>There are also lots of more appropriate venues to which anyone can subscribe.
>>>>I should have thought that my meaning would
>>>>be clear. It's not a particularly complex concept.
>>>>Mark
>>>>At 01:58 PM 10/2/2009, you wrote:
>>>>>How, I wonder, could the "conceptual" have a "venue"?
>>>>>On Fri, 2 Oct 2009, Mark Weiss wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>It's simply the wrong venue.
>>>>>>At 01:13 PM 10/2/2009, you wrote:
>>>>>>>Mark, Kent suggested I post a few things for him. I won't post any more
>>>>>>>on this topic, given the lukewarm response.
>>>>>>>On Fri, 2 Oct 2009 09:48:59 -0400, Mark Weiss
>>>>>>><[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>>> >Jeff: This is an awful lot of posts about
>>>>>>> >something incredibly trivial and at best mildly
>>>>>>> >amusing. It's also entirely divorced from British
>>>>>>> >and Irish poetry. Anyone here who wants to follow
>>>>>>> >the discussion could do so at poetryetc, where
>>>>>>> >you've been posting the identical posts. If
>>>>>>> >Britpo slides back into silence for a while, so
>>>>>>> >what? You may have noticed that almost nobody
>>>>>>> >here shows evidence of being interested, except
>>>>>>> >for a couple of Americans who are also on poetryetc.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >Mark
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >At 07:11 AM 10/2/2009, you wrote:
>>>>>>> >>Kent asked me to post this response to someone on the Digital
>>>>>>> >>Emunction blog:
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>"OK, Brennen, but if it isn’t, then what is it I might
>>>>>>>have “plagiarized”?
>>>>>>> >>I’m not saying I haven’t, I’m just curious what you mean.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>I see that you are thinking about this
>>>>>>> at your blog in terms of recent
>>>>>>>art
>>>>>>> >>history and theory, quoting Danto, and I think that’s great (Kenny
>>>>>>> >>should think it’s great, too, since
>>>>>>> he’s supposedly all about reflection
>>>>>>> >>and discussion).
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>In their writings on the Duchampian readymade and its neo-avant-
>>>>>>>garde
>>>>>>> >>recyclings, I find critics like
>>>>>>> Buchloh and Foster more interesting than
>>>>>>> >>Danto. Though they take strong exception to Burger’s wholesale dis
>>>>>>> >>missal of the neo-avant-garde, they’re
>>>>>>> also very critical of ways the
>>>>>>> >>great, original readymade move has
>>>>>>> been cut and pasted ad infinitum
>>>>>>> >>into the art market since, say,
>>>>>>> Nouveau realisme recycled gestures
>>>>>>> >>with this or that generic tweak or novelty, that is, emptied of any
>>>>>>>radi
>>>>>>> >>cal, anti-​institutional charge
>>>>>>> >>ready-​made, as it were, for rapid capture
>>>>>>> >>and incorporation by the networks of “Museum Culture.”
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>This recycling, I’d say, is
>>>>>>> transparently the case with the work of
>>>>>>>Kenny
>>>>>>> >>Goldsmith (Goldsmith and Bok, to be sure, who despite their
>>>>>>>polemics
>>>>>>> >>for the benefits of ego-​less
>>>>>>> >>“uncreativity” seem to have been drunk for
>>>>>>> >>the past few years on some kind of secret Author Function Ego Juice,
>>>>>>> >>are quite exuberantly open about their desire for the Museum). KG’s
>>>>>>> >>work is “uncreative” and “boring” not
>>>>>>> just as affective extension of its
>>>>>>> >>proclaimed poetic and “ontological” premises; it’s uncreative and
>>>>>>>boring
>>>>>>> >>because it’s so damn old hat: an attempted
>>>>>>> >>importation of decades-​old
>>>>>>> >>gestures into a Po-​Biz scene that, as
>>>>>>> >>Goldsmith himself puts it, “is forty
>>>>>>> >>years behind art,” and thus likely (at
>>>>>>> least part of its crowd) to take
>>>>>>> >>his “conceptual” banalities as
>>>>>>> exciting and new. In some circles, they
>>>>>>> >>call it snake oil.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>But it’s MY Day, Brennen, that is truly new, you see. The Authentic
>>>>>>> >>Item. Because no one has ever done it quite like this before. I’ve
>>>>>>>taken
>>>>>>> >>his whole bookum and made it mine, in single decisive act. And doing
>>>>>>> >>so, I’ve put his plagiarized bookum into the
>>>>>>> >>dustbin of sub-​poetic sub-​
>>>>>>> >>history. I am being both funny and
>>>>>>> serious, in saying that. Doubled in
>>>>>>> >>my intent, so to speak, like the red-​hot “Doubled K” poker
>>>>>>>that K.
>>>>>>> >>dreamily mentions in his blurb to my Day, where he acknowledges
>>>>>>>me,
>>>>>>> >>his mirrored K, as his master. And
>>>>>>> it’s why he’s going to put my book
>>>>>>>up
>>>>>>> >>on UbuWeb.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>And one more thing, though here I’m not kidding around: What they
>>>>>>> >>call “Conceptual poetry”? It’s forty years behind Broodthaers and
>>>>>>>Institu
>>>>>>> >>tional Critique.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>Kent"
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban
>>>>>>> >Poetry (University of California Press).
>>>>>>> >Forthcoming in November 2009 2009.
>>>>>>> >To read more go to: http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >"The Whole Island is a masterwork of cartography:
>>>>>>> >a map of what is, for English-language readers,
>>>>>>> >an almost unexplored territory, full of poets--at
>>>>>>> >home and in the diaspora--whom we ought to know."
>>>>>>> > -Eliot
>>>>>>> >Weinberger
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >"A definitive anthology guiding curious poets,
>>>>>>> >literary scholars and teachers, and generations of
>>>>>>> >readers out of the shadow of ignorant,
>>>>>>> >imperialist 'lockdown' surrounding the breadth and power of
>>>>>>> >Cuban poetry. [Weiss] provides a salient,
>>>>>>> >comprehensive introduction covering the fascinating vidas
>>>>>>> >of individual poets, literary movements,
>>>>>>> >political exigencies, and the vicissitudes of an ongoing cultural
>>>>>>> >struggle. But the imagination of the poetry
>>>>>>> >rules. What emerges is an essential compendium to
>>>>>>> >world literature. Presente!"
>>>>>>> > -Anne
>>>>>>> >Waldman
>>>>>>Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of
>>>>>>Cuban Poetry (University of California Press).
>>>>>>Forthcoming in November 2009 2009.
>>>>>>To read more go to: http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>>>>>>"The Whole Island is a masterwork of
>>>>>>cartography: a map of what is, for English-language readers,
>>>>>>an almost unexplored territory, full of
>>>>>>poets--at home and in the diaspora--whom we ought to know."
>>>>>>-Eliot Weinberger
>>>>>>"A definitive anthology guiding curious
>>>>>>poets, literary scholars and teachers, and generations of
>>>>>>readers out of the shadow of ignorant,
>>>>>>imperialist 'lockdown' surrounding the breadth and power of
>>>>>>Cuban poetry. [Weiss] provides a salient,
>>>>>>comprehensive introduction covering the fascinating vidas
>>>>>>of individual poets, literary movements,
>>>>>>political exigencies, and the vicissitudes of an ongoing cultural
>>>>>>struggle. But the imagination of the poetry
>>>>>>rules. What emerges is an essential compendium to
>>>>>>world literature. Presente!"
>>>>>>-Anne Waldman
>>>>>Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of
>>>>>Cuban Poetry (University of California Press).
>>>>>Forthcoming in November 2009 2009.
>>>>>To read more go to: http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>>>>>"The Whole Island is a masterwork of
>>>>>cartography: a map of what is, for English-language readers,
>>>>>an almost unexplored territory, full of
>>>>>poets--at home and in the diaspora--whom we ought to know."
>>>>>-Eliot Weinberger
>>>>>"A definitive anthology guiding curious
>>>>>poets, literary scholars and teachers, and generations of
>>>>>readers out of the shadow of ignorant,
>>>>>imperialist 'lockdown' surrounding the breadth and power of
>>>>>Cuban poetry. [Weiss] provides a salient,
>>>>>comprehensive introduction covering the fascinating vidas
>>>>>of individual poets, literary movements,
>>>>>political exigencies, and the vicissitudes of an ongoing cultural
>>>>>struggle. But the imagination of the poetry
>>>>>rules. What emerges is an essential compendium to
>>>>>world literature. Presente!"
>>>>>-Anne Waldman
>>>Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of
>>>Cuban Poetry (University of California Press).
>>>Forthcoming in November 2009 2009.
>>>To read more go to: http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>>>"The Whole Island is a masterwork of
>>>cartography: a map of what is, for English-language readers,
>>>an almost unexplored territory, full of
>>>poets--at home and in the diaspora--whom we ought to know."
>>>-Eliot Weinberger
>>>"A definitive anthology guiding curious poets,
>>>literary scholars and teachers, and generations of
>>>readers out of the shadow of ignorant,
>>>imperialist 'lockdown' surrounding the breadth and power of
>>>Cuban poetry. [Weiss] provides a salient,
>>>comprehensive introduction covering the fascinating vidas
>>>of individual poets, literary movements,
>>>political exigencies, and the vicissitudes of an ongoing cultural
>>>struggle. But the imagination of the poetry
>>>rules. What emerges is an essential compendium to
>>>world literature. Presente!"
>>>-Anne Waldman
>>
>>
>
>Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of
>Cuban Poetry (University of California Press).
>Forthcoming in November 2009 2009.
>To read more go to: http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>
>"The Whole Island is a masterwork of
>cartography: a map of what is, for English-language readers,
>an almost unexplored territory, full of
>poets--at home and in the diaspora--whom we ought to know."
>
>-Eliot Weinberger
>
>"A definitive anthology guiding curious poets,
>literary scholars and teachers, and generations of
>readers out of the shadow of ignorant,
>imperialist 'lockdown' surrounding the breadth and power of
>Cuban poetry. [Weiss] provides a salient,
>comprehensive introduction covering the fascinating vidas
>of individual poets, literary movements,
>political exigencies, and the vicissitudes of an ongoing cultural
>struggle. But the imagination of the poetry
>rules. What emerges is an essential compendium to
>world literature. Presente!"
>
>-Anne Waldman
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