JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for POETRYETC Archives


POETRYETC Archives

POETRYETC Archives


POETRYETC@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

POETRYETC Home

POETRYETC Home

POETRYETC  September 2009

POETRYETC September 2009

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: 'Day' a new work by Kent Johnson

From:

Desmond Swords <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Poetryetc: poetry and poetics

Date:

Sun, 27 Sep 2009 23:47:20 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (127 lines)

Like Tim, I too am "struck by the overriding aesthetic notion of the radical
and a distancing of the work from real  sociological radicalism that should
always lay at the root of  innovation." 

Johnson, I have not read much of. A few bits and pieces written for a
specialist audience who need be aware of the recondite lineages and
relationships between a host of late 20C academic-poets, in order to fully
cognize them - and a couple of satirical pieces on the Iraq prison abuse
scandals: both of which have a lot of fucks in 'em: which I take it is a
strategy to lend visceral emotional authority to the terror these people
underwent.

~

The thing which has struck me about American po-mo generally, in the last
few weeks, is the chasm in politico-aesthetic, between what's overtly stated
and what is actually done in the name of Poetry per se, by the predominatly
academic poets, is laughably and transparently, sad.

Thomas Graves had been writing under the name Thomas Brady on the Harriet
blog, clarifying a position, that there has been a systematic alienation of
the casual reader from poetry in the last 100 years, due to the
academicizing of poetry, which began - according to Graves - "at the
beginning of the 20th century, with a coterie of friends who spread out into
institutions and supported one another in their minor ‘revolution of taste
which left the public behind in a triumph that was unfortunately humorless
and arrogant."

Basically, this position argues that the academy went from a place where
poetry was studied, to the primary site of its productiomn. Lacking any
readers for their work, the 30's modernists took over the American academy
and artificially inflated their work there. So, you are a prof of English/CW
and you and your pals make false reps in the very classroom you eek out the
day job.

This is the background Graves was facing when he first began propounding his
theory, that contemporary American poetry is run by coteries of subsidised
poets with an artificial audience of Creative Writing students: his general
thesis being that in the absence of any readers for their work, poets like
"Tate, Pound and Ransom bashed the mere professors of literary history and
the coup of the creative writing program was accomplished by Paul Engle
(whose Yale Younger had come from a Fugitive poet judge) and the
Modernist/Fugitive/New Critical army."

Being an outsider and not knowing enough to get involved, what drew me to
Graves/Brady, was that his language is so alive, readable, and no one was
getting the better of him. Far from it.

He was always readable, very witty and simply the best online orator in
contemporary American poetry I have read. You may not agree with him (or me
in this assertion), but in the absence of any real competition, he was (i
think) the de facto champion debater on Harriet.

Unlike myself, he is unfailingly good humoured and never blown off course,
always coming up with startling similies and metaphors to make his point. By
comparison, the phd crowd who tried to take him on, seemed humorless and
uptight in the extreme.

Brady (along with me and a 70 year old poster called Christopher Woodman)
had our posting rights removed by Travis Nichols, the one person executive
moderating body responsible for that blog.

Nichols, a young longuer and ennui guy, phd-serious careerist in charge of
Harriet, wrote to the three of us around late June explaining that some
changes were about to be implemented on the blog: that people had been
moaning about the length and frequency of our posts, and could we shorten
them and post less frequently, because he would 'hate to lose you' from the
blog.

I suspected that 'hate to lose you' really meant he would love to lose me,
in part because Nichols gave no indication of what word-count or frequency
we should post.

I wrote back, returning 40% less text than he had sent me, saying 'thank you
very much Travis, of course, no problem' and he wrote back in a totally
different tenor, which made me realise that they guy just wanted me to like
him all along.

I just laid off there and spammed various other gaffes and watched
developments there.

~

The changes Trav brought in, were laughably blunt: what he termed 'handy'
'dislike' and 'like' icons, next to every post, which posters can click to
show they 'dislike' or like the post. Clicking 'like' produces a green,
thumbs up - whilst 'dislike' shows a red, thumbs down next to the post, and
with the number of reds and greens displayed next to the post. 

After seven reds, the post is concealed. Seven was the number decided on
after a trial run, because that was the average needed to hide Graves' posts.

The changes were brought in, because he wanted us three out, but having no
reasonable grounds, set about his strategy to get rid of us by means of a
popularity contest.

What was interesting is that on 1 September, Nichols removed all three of
our posting rights, did not write and inform us why, because there are no
posts which contravened the talk policy. 

So on one hand we have - as Tim says - an "aesthetic notion of the radical",
in people like Niochols: young Americans speaking up as if they are liberal
humanists, willing to speak about the wrong in real events which they are
detached from; but when it comes to handling 'real life' at the very basic
level of tolerating others, they show themselves up as being radically
intolerant - over something as innocuous as talking about poetry online.

~

The site Jeff links to, where Johnson attempts to breath into being his New
Chicago School: when Graves Woodman and I started posting there, we were
immediately banned by whoever owns it: not for any offensive speech, but
purely because whoever's it is, is playing a political game in which anyone
presenting a position which seeks to sincerely engage in debate with counter
arguments - are not tolerated.

And since we stopped posting at Harriet, the level of conversation has
wilted to one liners and congratulatory blurbish back-slaps among the ones
Nichols would have in his club: The New Chicago School of not very competent
poets.

But it isn't all doom Jeff: you got a compliment off Graves/Brady here, at
the blog Alan Cordle opf Foetry fame set up so the banned can still comment
on what posts appear at Harriet.

http://scarriet.wordpress.com/2009/09/27/the-merchandizing-of-poetic-genius/#comments

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
2005
2004
2003
2002
2001
2000


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

For help and support help@jisc.ac.uk

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager