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LIB-RFID-UK  June 2009

LIB-RFID-UK June 2009

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Subject:

Re: RFID/LMS database interaction - summary and reflections

From:

Ivar Thyssen <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Tue, 23 Jun 2009 16:46:04 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

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Parts/Attachments

text/plain (494 lines)

Mick,
No matter which of your 2 alternatives is used it is still necessary to
forward information about each material from the RFID-reader to the LMS/ILS.


Optimal way is full integration to each individual LMS/ILS for each RFID
vendor. Unfortunately, this would be a huge workload for the ILS companies
to do and I do not believe any LMS/ILS company is prepared to do. To
overcome the problem an API is the best solution.

Best regards
P.V. Supa Oy Ltd

Ivar Thyssen
Export manager


-----Original Message-----
From: Discussion List for RFID in Libraries
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mick Fortune
Sent: 23. juni 2009 16:08
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: RFID/LMS database interaction - summary and reflections

Ivar

Interesting points about the integration - or lack of integration - between
RFID and LMS/ILS at the staff workstation. There seem to be almost as many
solutions to this as there are systems. I think it all depends on whether
you see RFID as something "other" than day-to-day library operation or not.
The simplest level of integration would seem to be to populate the barcode
input buffer on the LMS/ILS from the RFID reader instead of the barcode
scanner. That way there is no re-training issue and all existing LMS/ILS
systems continue to operate as before. This is an approach that has been
successfully implemented at many sites. The only difficulty appears to be in
finding a way to gain the advantage of multiple item processing that is
possible with self-service.

An alternative is to run an RFID  client alongside the LMS/ILS client to
manage the security settings - which is also popular with suppliers though
not so much with libraries. I really don't see why there is a need for a new
standard or API. Indeed it was a request made to Leif Andresen for such a
standard that set the alarm bells ringing for me in the first place. Why
invent a new way to interact with your stock? Isn't that why you have a
library system in the first place? I am advised by at least two UK suppliers
that they will announce multiple item handling at staff workstations later
this year.

Amen to not duplicating databases but the concern is that scaling up smart
shelves for large libraries will place too heavy a demand for the LMS/ILS to
handle - that's why at the moment the idea seems to be to use the shelves to
take inventory during quiet hours, rather than monitor real-time stock use.
That seems like a lot of investment for not much return right now but I am
assured that the system can be scaled up to handle real time operations
eventually. The real point seems to me to be "who runs your library?"

Mick

Mick Fortune       
m. +44 (0)7786 625544         t.   +44 (0)1865 727411


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Discussion List for RFID in Libraries [mailto:LIB-RFID-
> [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ivar Thyssen
> Sent: 23 June 2009 06:10
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: FW: RFID/LMS database interaction - summary and reflections
> 
> Mick,
> I fully agree to your statements that RFID-vendors and ILS (LMS)
> companies
> should co-operate for the development of intelligent shelves. However,
> before starting on intelligent shelves, it would be very convenient if
> we
> could start to co-operate for integration of staff desk solutions.
> 
> The optimal solution would be either an ISO standard interface between
> ILS
> systems and RFID-software for staff desks. Unfortunately, I do not
> believe
> this is possible to establish.
> 
> Instead, I suggest that all ILS companies establish an API to which the
> RFID
> system integrators can connect for staff desk solutions and eventually
> also
> for programming of RFID-tags for new media. This solution moves the
> responsibility for integration to the integrator's side and makes life
> much
> easier for everybody.
> 
> Back to intelligent shelves I cannot see that co-operation would
> facilitate
> a solution. Presently, the industry has a good integration using NCIP
> for
> exchange of data between ILS and automatic systems and from our point
> of
> view for intelligent shelves all relevant data can be pulled from ILS
> via
> this protocol. Therefore, I cannot understand why a duplicated database
> as
> Mick mentions in his comments, is needed.
> 
> Best regards
> P.V. Supa Oy Ltd.
> 
> Ivar Thyssen
> Export manager
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Discussion List for RFID in Libraries
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mick Fortune
> Sent: 22. juni 2009 18:21
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: RFID/LMS database interaction - summary and reflections
> 
> Alan
> 
> I recently watched a presentation about smart shelving and have
> previously
> seen presentations in Denmark and Italy about similar projects.
> 
> It's quite a different concept from automated sorting. As you say
> sorting is
> driven by the SIP protocol at the moment and, although not technically
> a
> standard, it is the nearest thing we have to one and works in the
> manner you
> suggest.
> 
> No, the "smart shelf" idea uses RFID antennae built into the shelf in
> some
> way. Two versions I have seen use something very like a separator
> spaced out
> along each shelf - another uses a single antenna built into the shelf
> itself. The shelves themselves then become "active" and stock placed
> upon
> them can be "seen" by the RFID system. The possible uses for such a
> technology are obviously legion in number but one that has been
> suggested is
> that active shelves can be used to monitor the use of stock within the
> library - i.e. non-circulating but potentially in high demand.
> 
> There would however be difficulties in using the LMS catalogue to drive
> such
> an operation. One proposal for overcoming this is to use a separate
> database
> to drive the smart shelves. This, to me, raises several more issues
> that do
> not appear to have been fully considered.
> 
> Far from seeing such developments as negative however, I think they
> represent some really exciting thinking and potentially great
> innovation. My
> problem is that we now have two groups of companies competing in the
> same
> space - RFID and LMS suppliers. Rather than work together (which they
> do
> very successfully in some areas) they seem to be miles apart on issues
> like
> this. I suspect for two reasons. Firstly because libraries ask their
> RFID
> companies to be innovative rather than co-operative, and secondly
> because
> the RFID companies see library operation as their domain. Which of
> course it
> is. Except that bad things can happen if libraries don't ask the right
> questions about how such innovations might affect their day to day
> operation. Witness the (almost) total lack of interoperability in the
> self-service world.
> 
> But as a consultant you'd expect me to say that, wouldn't you?
> 
> 
> 
> Mick Fortune
> m. +44 (0)7786 625544         t.   +44 (0)1865 727411
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Discussion List for RFID in Libraries [mailto:LIB-RFID-
> > [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Exelby Alan Mr (LIB)
> > Sent: 22 June 2009 16:47
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: RFID/LMS database interaction - summary and reflections
> >
> > Mick,
> >
> > What is a "smart shelving project"? We at UEA do have an automated
> > returns sorter, and this sorts perfectly well for six different
> floors
> > using data sent from the LMS via SIP2 using the CL field, which is I
> > believe a standard field.
> >
> > Alan
> >
> >
> > ==============================
> > Mr A.V. Exelby,
> > Systems/Databases Librarian.
> > The Library,
> > University of East Anglia,
> > Norwich, NR4 7TJ
> >
> > Tel.: 01603 592432
> > E-mail: [log in to unmask]
> > ================================
> > "Man, who'd have thought being a librarian could be so tough"
> > Seamus Harper, in 'Harper 2.0', "Andromeda".
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > 	From: Discussion List for RFID in Libraries
> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mick Fortune
> > 	Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 4:39 PM
> > 	To: [log in to unmask]
> > 	Subject: Re: RFID/LMS database interaction - summary and
> > reflections
> >
> >
> >
> > 	Good afternoon all
> >
> > 	It would seem that no-one is yet using any of the
> > database-driven solutions of which I spoke last week. Well at least
> > no-one has written to me to tell me about one, apart from Ivar and
> one
> > other company that wrote off list to let me know that they keep a
> small
> > database to drive preferences for self-service units this way.
> >
> > 	However what I was alluding to was, as Ken suggested, something
> > rather more radical. Indeed there are two radical solutions - one for
> > circulation and one for cataloguing. Since no-one has mentioned
> either
> > I
> > conclude that both are still on their respective drawing boards - at
> > least as far as the UK market is concerned.
> >
> > 	I am however aware that at least one library has signed up to a
> > solution that appears to require duplication of the LMS catalogue in
> > order to drive a smart shelving project. I will be really interested
> to
> > see how that story develops.
> >
> > 	As regular readers will know the last BIC/CILIP RFID meeting -
> > which I mediated -  agreed a UK Profile for RFID tags that contained
> > only three mandatory elements (among the 16 in the profile), entirely
> > in
> > line with the views of the majority that expressed an opinion on the
> > list. Which is gratifying to say the least J. Don't forget the full
> > profile is available from either BIC or my blog.
> >
> > 	Part of the profile relates to the ISIL code for library
> > identification. This will be a mandatory element in 28560-2 and the
> > national profile but so far (having checked last week) only 9
> libraries
> > have registered with the UK's ISIL registration authority at the BL.
> >
> > 	Thanks again for the replies to everyone that did.
> >
> > 	Kind regards
> >
> > 	Mick
> >
> >
> >
> > 	Mick Fortune
> >
> > 	m. +44 (0)7786 625544         t.   +44 (0)1865 727411
> >
> >
> >
> > 	From: Discussion List for RFID in Libraries
> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ivar Thyssen
> > 	Sent: 18 June 2009 11:54
> > 	To: [log in to unmask]
> > 	Subject: Re: RFID/LMS database interaction
> >
> >
> >
> > 	HI,
> >
> > 	The last three comments concerning duplicated handling of
> > information are all perfectly right.
> >
> > 	We shall not save more information to the RFID-tag than
> > necessary. Relevant data are ID-number, library ID and information
> > about
> > set. All other information should already be stored in LMS. However,
> > this does not mean that an RFID-tag may not be used for supply chain
> > purpose, but all information used in supply chain should be wiped
> > before
> > the material is made public (obvious reasons).
> >
> > 	Similar, information about materials and users shall be stored
> > in the LMS and only in the LMS. That is why we have an LMS! However,
> > the
> > LMS does not facilitate the interaction between RFID-components.
> >
> > 	Unfortunately, above statements do not provide libraries with
> > optimal solutions when it comes to utilization of the RFID. P.V. Supa
> > has found that a lot more is possible with RFID, but we had to create
> a
> > special RFID-database for information found no where else in any
> > existing system (the database runs in the background and manage
> > RFID-issues). I cannot be too specific for competitive reasons, but
> > libraries are free to contact us.
> >
> > 	Best regards
> >
> > 	P.V. Supa Oy Ltd.
> >
> > 	Ivar Thyssen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> >
> > 	From: Discussion List for RFID in Libraries
> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jamie O Neill
> > 	Sent: 18. juni 2009 12:12
> > 	To: [log in to unmask]
> > 	Subject: Re: RFID/LMS database interaction
> >
> >
> >
> > 	Hi
> >
> >
> >
> > 	I'm with Gary on this.  I don't see the point in duplicating
> > data or having data in yet another database which could happily be
> > stored in a table on the LMS and would have to be synched in real
> time
> > probably over a protocol like sip which most Libraries will be
> already
> > using.
> >
> >
> >
> > 	Also we already have units that deal with Security and Self
> > Service.  Granted we don't get stats from the security side but I
> don't
> > think this would be very useful anyway.  The Circulation data is
> > obviously more meaningful to Libraries.  The ability to use Self
> > Service
> > and Security in one unit and gather stats from the LMS via sip or
> > similar is fine at the moment.
> >
> >
> >
> > 	Unless I'm missing the point somewhere along the line?
> >
> >
> >
> > 	Jamie.
> >
> >
> >
> > 	Jamie O'Neill
> > 	Talis System Administrator
> > 	Library Infrastructure Management
> > 	University of Central Lancashire
> > 	Office Tel:  01772 892298
> > 	Mobile No: 07961074653
> > 	Facsimile:   01772 892937
> >
> >
> >
> > 	>>> Gary Green <[log in to unmask]> 18/06/2009 10:41 >>>
> >
> > 	Hi
> >
> > 	Wouldn't it just duplicate the data and lead to the LMS & RFID
> > systems being out of synch? Wouldn't you also need more staff to
> update
> > the 2 separate databases? Does this mean these systems would be
> > expecting RFID tags to include bib data on them too, which so many
> RFID
> > users don't seem keen on?
> >
> >
> >
> > 	I know it's not the same thing, but it seems at odds with what's
> > happening in other IT areas (particularly the internet) where the
> > effort
> > is spent bringing the data together, not purposefully separating it.
> >
> > 	Gary Green
> >
> > 	Technical Librarian
> > 	Virtual Content Team
> > 	Surrey County Council
> >
> > 	Tel. 01306-881499
> >
> > 	Fax. 01306-743240
> >
> > 	An outstanding council making Surrey a better place
> > 	Forward thinking - responsive and reliable - working with others
> > - value for money
> >
> >
> >
> > 	-----Discussion List for RFID in Libraries
> > <[log in to unmask]> wrote: -----
> >
> > 	To: [log in to unmask]
> > 	From: Mick Fortune <[log in to unmask]>
> > 	Sent by: Discussion List for RFID in Libraries
> > <[log in to unmask]>
> > 	Date: 17/06/2009 02:52PM
> > 	Subject: RFID/LMS database interaction
> >
> > 	I have recently been advised of two RFID solutions being
> > proposed that are
> > 	using a separate database from the LMS to control RFID units
> > within a library.
> > 	One controls security the other self-service.
> >
> > 	I had seen a schematic for a third such solution some time ago
> > but believe
> > 	that it never in fact came to market.
> >
> > 	This  seems to be part of an emerging trend for RFID systems to
> > declare
> > 	themselves independent from the LMS/ILS and go it alone. That
> > may be an
> > 	inveitable consequence of technologicak change but at this
> > moment in time I
> > 	am finding it difficult however to understand or conceptualise
> > how this might
> > 	work in practice? It is not yet clear whether the scenarios on
> > offer are real or
> > 	hypothetical although both claim to have been market tested.
> >
> > 	I would very much welcome any inputs the list can offer on how
> > the two
> > 	databases might be kept in synch and any impact on performance
> > of doing so -
> > 	 if anyone out there has experience of such a solution?
> >
> > 	Kind regards
> >
> > 	Mick
> >
> >
> >
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