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COMMUNITYPSYCHUK  June 2009

COMMUNITYPSYCHUK June 2009

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Subject:

Re: subjective experience of taking anti-psychotic drugs

From:

Penny Priest <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

The UK Community Psychology Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 10 Jun 2009 11:26:06 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

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text/plain (401 lines)

I think one of the key issues here is whether people believe (or whether
the evidence bears out) that we choose what we think (about ourselves and
the world)or that our thoughts are made up from a whole load of
interacting environments and histories. Subjective therefore being
something along the lines of how we experience ourselves in each moment,
but acknowledging that this experience would not come about solely from
within ourselves, unless we had existed in an exquisite space of nothing
for our whole lives. And because of cultural differences, some people's
sense of being an individual entity, separate from other life, might be
more or less (and obviously more individual/subjective in our western way
of thinking).





> Craig
>
> I do think that I change/develop by the minute but I think that is
> different from being another person.
>
> Helen
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of CRAIG NEWNES
> Sent: 10 June 2009 10:12
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: subjective experience of taking anti-psychotic drugs
>
>
> You have to believe in the concept of "persons" to write this. All over
> the world people do indeed believe they change by the minute - in some
> cultures "responsibility" for the self is unknown because "selves"
> change daily - hence you can't be held responsible for something done
> yesterday - and "achievement" is unheard of
> Craig
>
> --- On Wed, 10/6/09, COMBES Helen A <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
>
> 	From: COMBES Helen A <[log in to unmask]>
> 	Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] subjective experience of taking
> anti-psychotic drugs
> 	To: [log in to unmask]
> 	Date: Wednesday, 10 June, 2009, 10:00 AM
>
>
> 	Dear Philosophical of Birmingham
>
> 	You raise some interesting points.  I think that we are the best
> observers of our inner world and in that sense we are the most objective
> viewers of our experience.   Through language we can have some shared
> understanding and of course language is an extremely useful tool but it
> is always limited.
>
> 	Your post script about true selves as the subjective is also
> interesting.  Do we become another person when we change our minds, when
> we move, change/lose our jobs/parents.  I doubt it?!
>
> 	Helen
>
> ________________________________
>
> 	From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Harris Carl (R3)
> BCH
> 	Sent: 08 June 2009 16:51
> 	To: [log in to unmask]
> 	Subject: Re: subjective experience of taking anti-psychotic
> drugs
>
>
>
> 	Dear all
>
>
>
> 	Helen's revival of this dialogue coincides with a brief
> discussion of social constructionism today in my place of work.
>
>
>
> 	Does a subjective experience imply the existence of an
> individual "subject" that is separate from that which is being
> experienced? If our experiences are all socially constructed then this
> separation is problematic, as we cannot separate ourselves from the
> social processes through which we encounter ourselves and the world. In
> a sense, therefore, all of our experiences are non-subjective, as they
> are constructed through our collective languaging, thinking and
> practice, although "we" (as individual organisms) seem to be aware of
> something going on (and are, therefore, having an experience).
>
>
>
> 	Is that what you were saying, Helen, when you referred to the
> notion of "what one observes in the here and now without language (if
> that is ever possible)"?
>
>
>
> 	So, although in "our society" we are construed as individuals
> who have subjective experiences, this is itself a social construction.
>
>
>
> 	What would a critical realist response to this be? Would it be
> to say that all social practices perform a social function and that,
> while they are all ultimately based on one set of indefensible
> assumptions or another, it is their effects in the "real world" that
> matter. We can observe and experience their effects for ourselves
> (referring, if we like, to our "subjective experiences") and can
> perceive their effects on those around us. We can see who wins and who
> loses through the "winning out" of one version of reality or another.
>
>
>
> 	This takes me back to the question that David Fryer suggests we
> ask, "In whose interest is it that this should be believed?"
>
>
>
> 	Cheers
>
>
>
> 	Philosophical of Birmingham
>
>
>
>
>
> 	PS I wonder also whether the term subjective in the context of
> taking anti-psychotic drugs refers to the notion of a "true self".
> Whether that is the self that is "sane", "experiencing psychosis", or
> "taking anti-psychotic drugs" is beyond me.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> 	From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of COMBES Helen A
> 	Sent: 08 June 2009 11:19
> 	To: [log in to unmask]
> 	Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] subjective experience of taking
> anti-psychotic drugs
>
>
>
> 	Maybe what one observes in the here and now without language (if
> that is ever possible)!
>
>
>
> 	Helen
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> 	From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Suzanne Elliott
> 	Sent: 20 May 2009 15:11
> 	To: [log in to unmask]
> 	Subject: Re: subjective experience of taking anti-psychotic
> drugs
>
> 	Hi craig
>
>
>
> 	Hmmm... serious and interesting question.  I need to be more
> cautious about what I reproduce with the copy-and-paste function!!
>
>
>
> 	I wonder whether it was a way of presenting people's experiences
> that suited ACTA PSYCHIATRICA
>
> 	SCANDINAVICA who published the article.  A bit like the BPS
> calling this months 'beyond cbt' theme in the Psychologist mag an
> 'opinion special'.
>
>
>
> 	suzanne
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> 	From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of CRAIG NEWNES
> 	Sent: 20 May 2009 14:53
> 	To: [log in to unmask]
> 	Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] subjective experience of taking
> anti-psychotic drugs
>
>
>
> Suzanne, Serious question: What is a non-subjective experience?
>
> Craig
>
> --- On Wed, 20/5/09, Suzanne Elliott <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> 	From: Suzanne Elliott <[log in to unmask]>
> 	Subject: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] subjective experience of taking
> anti-psychotic drugs
> 	To: [log in to unmask]
> 	Date: Wednesday, 20 May, 2009, 9:01 AM
>
> 	Hi everyone
>
>
>
> 	Someone sent me a link to this paper (below), I haven't looked
> at the full article yet, but it looks interesting...
>
>
>
> Suzanne
>
>
>
> Below is a summary of the findings of an interesting study looking at
> the personal experience of taking antipsychotic medication. The full
> paper can be reached at www.mentalhealth.freeuk.com/acta.pdf
> <http://www.mentalhealth.freeuk.com/acta.pdf>
>
>
>
> The subjective experience of taking antipsychotic medication: a content
> analysis of Internet data
>
>
>
> Significant outcomes
>
> * Sedation, impaired cognition and emotional flattening and indifference
> were most frequently
>
> associated with all the drugs examined. Few respondents mentioned
> pleasant effects such as calmness
>
> or relaxation.
>
> * Although, the main subjective effects were shared by the different
> antipsychotics, they were
>
> associated with a different profile of physical effects.
>
> * Some respondents described a beneficial impact of the main subjective
> mental effects of the
>
> antipsychotic drugs on their psychiatric symptoms.
>
>
>
> Limitations
>
> * The generalisability of data from Internet users is uncertain, and a
> bias towards negative comments
>
> may exist. However, the demographic and clinical profile of respondents
> resembles that of recipients
>
> of out-patient prescriptions of antipsychotics.
>
> * Little information on dose or concurrent medications was available.
>
> * We could not assess the prevalence
>
>
>
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