Tom Cruise, John Travolta and the rest of the Scientologists are funding it.
J.
Marshall Barbara wrote:
> I think, for me, the question is about an individual's agency - the
> possibility of having power as an individual to make positive changes
> to the world we live in. We try to find others who we imagine think in a
> similar manner. Groups of people, even with an apparently similar focus
> regarding what they want to change, tend to schism for many different
> reasons. Having some shared acceptance of the issues helps to clarify
> the goals (if it can be managed). The idea of intersubjectivity aids an
> understanding of just how complex the task is when we try to group with
> like minded people to take collective action. Equally, the language we
> use to try to express ourselves is itself loaded. If we organise around
> the concept of 'race' do we not dig ourselves further into accepting
> 'race' as valid and a useful marker of difference (I use that identity
> marker as it seems the most stark)? My interest in the subject was in
> trying to imagine the task of effecting change through thinking about
> how individuals are integrated into the world they live in and what
> agency any single person can be said to have...
>
> It all seems so complex...
>
> Barbara
>
> PS Just to get back to the issue of anti-psychotic drugs, I have just
> today received from the US free of charge information from the Citizens
> Commission on Human Rights which includes the DVD called Psychiatry An
> Industry of Death and a glossy supplement brochure. I don't know if I
> got the link from this group, I can't remember. I don't know who is
> funding this but having produced and distributed the material free of
> charge internationally they must have a few bob in their coffers. A
> summary look tells me that anti-psychiatry would be an understatement.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]*On Behalf Of *David Fryer
> *Sent:* 12 June 2009 12:46
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Subject:* Re: subjective experience of taking anti-psychotic drugs
>
> Hi John,
> I think that that questions about relationships between subjectivity
> and power are relevant to community critical psychology in relation
> to specific issues but I was really asking something different ...
> not so much a psychologistic / individualistic question about why
> people are interested in or motivated to write about X or an
> intellectual question about why is is an interesting debating topic
> but asking about what is going on 'below' these issues . . . which /
> whose interests are being served by the devotion of such time and
> energy to this issue as opposed to other issues.
> Periodically issue provokes far more posts and posts are in
> different in rhetoric to those about other issues. In the past CBT
> has been this sort of issue. It is clearer whose interests are
> served by the construction of CBT as an issue to absorb our interest
> and energy and deflect it from other more important issues but this
> one? The original post an opportunity for discussion of and
> opposition to pharmacological abuse and the deployment of the (to
> ccp) discredited objective / subjective binary but discussion
> focused on the latter along with old identity jokes rather than the
> oppressive impacts of big pharma. I have been asking myself why?
> David
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* John Cromby <[log in to unmask]>
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Sent:* Friday, 12 June, 2009 10:59:21
> *Subject:* Re: subjective experience of taking anti-psychotic drugs
>
> David, I'm surprised that you seem surprised by this. Questions
> about the nature of experience and the ways in which psychological
> subjects are bound up with their social and material circumstances
> are surely of abiding relevance for a list discussing community
> psychology?
> J.
>
> David Fryer wrote:
> > Why is so much time being devoted to this issue on this list?
> > David
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *From:* Penny Priest <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> > *To:* [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> > *Sent:* Thursday, 11 June, 2009 11:17:53
> > *Subject:* Re: subjective experience of taking anti-psychotic drugs
> >
> > Hi Carl
> > John has an excellent paper (written with Dave Harper) on our
> midlands psychology group website
> (http://www.midpsy.freeuk.com/paranoia.pdf) about paranoia, which
> develops some of these ideas and subjectivity (I think John's also
> one of the editors of the journal Subjectivity... is that right John?).
> > Best wishes
> > Craig Newnes
> >
> > (Craig once told me he was me and I was him, and presumably we
> were both everybody else, so...)
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harris Carl (R3) BCH"
> <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>>
> > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:03 AM
> > Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] subjective experience of taking
> anti-psychotic drugs
> >
> >
> > Hello All
> >
> > I just wanted to go back to the bit where Barbara was responding
> to John. I also found John's response particularly interesting.
> >
> > For me community psychology emphasises the importance of people's
> material experiences in relation to the things that they think. So
> its our social experience that determines our consciousness rather
> than the other way around.
> >
> > But then there is also the material part of ourselves. The
> problem for me is that the thinking about the material part of the
> human experience is often medicalised. The brain has been colonised
> by, for instance, MRI scans which are, in turn, used to support
> notions like "ADHD" which decontextualise people's experiences and
> actions.
> >
> > David Smail has talked about the body as the basis of human
> experience. John Cromby has talked about "embodiment" at different
> times. Has this thinking been developed and where? Can it be used to
> help develop our understanding of how our social experiences relate
> to our material selves?
> >
> > Philosophical of Birmingham
> >
> > PS I would also like to know what the person who is calling
> themselves Craig Newnes has done with the real Craig.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>] On Behalf Of Gopfert, Michael
> > Sent: 11 June 2009 09:48
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> > Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] subjective experience of taking
> anti-psychotic drugs
> >
> > It sounds like a near psychotic experience: if you had a
> folie-a-deux between two (or more) of the identities involved it
> would lead to a merger and could represent cure?
> >
> > Michael Göpfert,
> > [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> > Skype: Michael.g1947
> > Work 44-151-7246872
> > ________________________________________
> > From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
> [[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>] On Behalf Of Mark Rapley
> [[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>]
> > Sent: 10 June 2009 23:21
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> > Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] subjective experience of taking
> anti-psychotic drugs
> >
> > My doppelganger disagrees with me about the existence of my - or
> is it ur -
> > inner world(s). S/he is from Fiji. Or thereabouts. So s/he says.
> > But s/he - or is it me - paints quite well...
> > Yours PG (we think, for now)
> >
> > Mark Rapley, PhD,
> > Professor of Clinical Psychology,
> > Programme Director - Doctoral Degree in Clinical Psychology,
> > School of Psychology,
> > University of East London,
> > London, E15 4LZ,
> > U.K.
> >
> > Tel: +44 (0)208 223 6392 (Direct)
> > Tel: +44 (0)208 223 4567 (Messages)
> > Tel: +44 (0)7951 908409 (Mobile)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List on behalf of
> CRAIG NEWNES
> > Sent: Wed 6/10/2009 21:39
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> > Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] subjective experience of taking
> > anti-psychotic drugs
> >
> > What, exactly, is an "inner world?" The cultures I know of are
> Polynesian.
> > C
> >
> > --- On Wed, 10/6/09, Greta Sykes <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Greta Sykes <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>>
> > Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] subjective experience of taking
> > anti-psychotic drugs
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> > Date: Wednesday, 10 June, 2009, 2:37 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yes, very interesting - where are they?
> > How come an artist paints in a style that we all recognise for
> his or her
> > style, if they are not a person and don't perceive their own
> inner needs?
> >
> > One can take social construction perhaps too far, as we do exist as
> > individuals, unique ones at that, in term of our blood, genes,
> fingerprints
> > and unique set of emotions and thoughts. These we can at leisure
> observe from
> > the inside - and from the outside via other peoples' social
> constructions of
> > us - as Helen said; we are each necessarily the best observer of
> our inner
> > world, or observers, if you have multiple personalities,
> >
> > Greta
> >
> >
> >
> > From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>] On Behalf Of tim anstiss
> > Sent: 10 June 2009 10:16
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> > Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] subjective experience of taking
> > anti-psychotic drugs
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > that sounds interesting - which cultures are these?
> >
> >
> >
> > Tim
> >
> > --- On Wed, 10/6/09, CRAIG NEWNES <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>> wrote:
> >
> > From: CRAIG NEWNES <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>>
> > Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] subjective experience of taking
> > anti-psychotic drugs
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> > Date: Wednesday, 10 June, 2009, 10:12 AM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > You have to believe in the concept of "persons" to write this.
> All over the
> > world people do indeed believe they change by the minute - in
> some cultures
> > "responsibility" for the self is unknown because "selves" change
> daily -
> > hence you can't be held responsible for something done yesterday
> - and
> > "achievement" is unheard of
> >
> > Craig
> >
> > --- On Wed, 10/6/09, COMBES Helen A <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: COMBES Helen A <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>>
> > Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] subjective experience of taking
> > anti-psychotic drugs
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> > Date: Wednesday, 10 June, 2009, 10:00 AM
> >
> >
> > Dear Philosophical of Birmingham
> >
> > You raise some interesting points. I think that we are the best
> observers of
> > our inner world and in that sense we are the most objective
> viewers of our
> > experience. Through language we can have some shared
> understanding and of
> > course language is an extremely useful tool but it is always limited.
> >
> > Your post script about true selves as the subjective is also
> interesting. Do
> > we become another person when we change our minds, when we move,
> change/lose
> > our jobs/parents. I doubt it?!
> >
> > Helen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>] On Behalf Of Harris Carl
> (R3) BCH
> > Sent: 08 June 2009 16:51
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> > Subject: Re: subjective experience of taking anti-psychotic drugs
> >
> > Dear all
> >
> > Helen's revival of this dialogue coincides with a brief
> discussion of social
> > constructionism today in my place of work.
> >
> > Does a subjective experience imply the existence of an individual
> "subject"
> > that is separate from that which is being experienced? If our
> experiences are
> > all socially constructed then this separation is problematic, as
> we cannot
> > separate ourselves from the social processes through which we
> encounter
> > ourselves and the world. In a sense, therefore, all of our
> experiences are
> > non-subjective, as they are constructed through our collective
> languaging,
> > thinking and practice, although "we" (as individual organisms)
> seem to be
> > aware of something going on (and are, therefore, having an
> experience).
> >
> > Is that what you were saying, Helen, when you referred to the
> notion of "what
> > one observes in the here and now without language (if that is ever
> > possible)"?
> >
> > So, although in "our society" we are construed as individuals who
> have
> > subjective experiences, this is itself a social construction.
> >
> > What would a critical realist response to this be? Would it be to
> say that
> > all social practices perform a social function and that, while
> they are all
> > ultimately based on one set of indefensible assumptions or
> another, it is
> > their effects in the "real world" that matter. We can observe and
> experience
> > their effects for ourselves (referring, if we like, to our
> "subjective
> > experiences") and can perceive their effects on those around us.
> We can see
> > who wins and who loses through the "winning out" of one version
> of reality or
> > another.
> >
> > This takes me back to the question that David Fryer suggests we
> ask, "In
> > whose interest is it that this should be believed?"
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Philosophical of Birmingham
> >
> >
> > PS I wonder also whether the term subjective in the context of taking
> > anti-psychotic drugs refers to the notion of a "true self".
> Whether that is
> > the self that is "sane", "experiencing psychosis", or "taking
> anti-psychotic
> > drugs" is beyond me.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>] On Behalf Of COMBES Helen A
> > Sent: 08 June 2009 11:19
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> > Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] subjective experience of taking
> > anti-psychotic drugs
> >
> >
> > Maybe what one observes in the here and now without language (if
> that is ever
> > possible)!
> >
> > Helen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>] On Behalf Of Suzanne Elliott
> > Sent: 20 May 2009 15:11
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> > Subject: Re: subjective experience of taking anti-psychotic drugs
> > Hi craig
> >
> > Hmmm. serious and interesting question. I need to be more
> cautious about
> > what I reproduce with the copy-and-paste function!!
> >
> > I wonder whether it was a way of presenting people's experiences
> that suited
> > ACTA PSYCHIATRICA
> > SCANDINAVICA who published the article. A bit like the BPS
> calling this
> > months 'beyond cbt' theme in the Psychologist mag an 'opinion
> special'.
> >
> > suzanne
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>] On Behalf Of CRAIG NEWNES
> > Sent: 20 May 2009 14:53
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> > Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] subjective experience of taking
> > anti-psychotic drugs
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Suzanne, Serious question: What is a non-subjective experience?
> >
> > Craig
> >
> > --- On Wed, 20/5/09, Suzanne Elliott
> <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>>
> > wrote:
> >
> > From: Suzanne Elliott <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>>
> > Subject: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] subjective experience of taking
> anti-psychotic
> > drugs
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> > Date: Wednesday, 20 May, 2009, 9:01 AM
> >
> >
> > Hi everyone
> >
> > Someone sent me a link to this paper (below), I haven't looked at
> the full
> > article yet, but it looks interesting.
> >
> > Suzanne
> >
> > Below is a summary of the findings of an interesting study
> looking at the
> > personal experience of taking antipsychotic medication. The full
> paper can be
> > reached at www.mentalhealth.freeuk.com/acta.pdf
> >
> > The subjective experience of taking antipsychotic medication: a
> content
> > analysis of Internet data
> >
> > Significant outcomes
> > . Sedation, impaired cognition and emotional flattening and
> indifference were
> > most frequently
> > associated with all the drugs examined. Few respondents mentioned
> pleasant
> > effects such as calmness
> > or relaxation.
> > . Although, the main subjective effects were shared by the different
> > antipsychotics, they were
> > associated with a different profile of physical effects.
> > . Some respondents described a beneficial impact of the main
> subjective
> > mental effects of the
> > antipsychotic drugs on their psychiatric symptoms.
> >
> > Limitations
> > . The generalisability of data from Internet users is uncertain,
> and a bias
> > towards negative comments
> > may exist. However, the demographic and clinical profile of
> respondents
> > resembles that of recipients
> > of out-patient prescriptions of antipsychotics.
> > . Little information on dose or concurrent medications was available.
> > . We could not assess the prevalence
> >
> > ___________________________________ COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The
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> > visit the website:
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> > problems or queries, contact the list moderator: Grant Jeffrey
> > ([log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>)
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> -- ********************************************************
> John Cromby
> Department of Human Sciences
> Loughborough University
> Loughborough, Leics
> LE11 3TU England
> Tel: 01509 223000
> Email: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Personal webpage: http://www-staff.lboro.ac.uk/~hujc4/
> Co-Editor, "Subjectivity": www.palgrave-journals.com/sub
> ********************************************************
>
> ___________________________________
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> ___________________________________ COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The
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--
********************************************************
John Cromby
Department of Human Sciences
Loughborough University
Loughborough, Leics
LE11 3TU England
Tel: 01509 223000
Email: [log in to unmask]
Personal webpage: http://www-staff.lboro.ac.uk/~hujc4/
Co-Editor, "Subjectivity": www.palgrave-journals.com/sub
********************************************************
___________________________________
COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion list for community psychology in the UK.
To unsubscribe or to change your details visit the website:
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