I see what you mean, and I expect that ultimately the reasons for the
emphasis that emerged are multiple and complex. But I'd imagine that one
of them is that, on here at least, the understanding that psychiatric
pharmaceuticals are not necessarily therapeutic is mostly just
taken-for-granted?
J.
David Fryer wrote:
> Hi John,
> I think that that questions about relationships between subjectivity and
> power are relevant to community critical psychology in relation to
> specific issues but I was really asking something different ... not so
> much a psychologistic / individualistic question about why people are
> interested in or motivated to write about X or an intellectual question
> about why is is an interesting debating topic but asking about what is
> going on 'below' these issues . . . which / whose interests are being
> served by the devotion of such time and energy to this issue as opposed
> to other issues. Periodically issue provokes far more posts and posts
> are in different in rhetoric to those about other issues. In the
> past CBT has been this sort of issue. It is clearer whose interests are
> served by the construction of CBT as an issue to absorb our interest and
> energy and deflect it from other more important issues but this one? The
> original post an opportunity for discussion of and opposition to
> pharmacological abuse and the deployment of the (to ccp) discredited
> objective / subjective binary but discussion focused on the latter
> along with old identity jokes rather than the oppressive impacts of big
> pharma. I have been asking myself why?
> David
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* John Cromby <[log in to unmask]>
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Sent:* Friday, 12 June, 2009 10:59:21
> *Subject:* Re: subjective experience of taking anti-psychotic drugs
>
> David, I'm surprised that you seem surprised by this. Questions about
> the nature of experience and the ways in which psychological subjects
> are bound up with their social and material circumstances are surely of
> abiding relevance for a list discussing community psychology?
> J.
>
> David Fryer wrote:
> > Why is so much time being devoted to this issue on this list?
> > David
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *From:* Penny Priest <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> > *To:* [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> > *Sent:* Thursday, 11 June, 2009 11:17:53
> > *Subject:* Re: subjective experience of taking anti-psychotic drugs
> >
> > Hi Carl
> > John has an excellent paper (written with Dave Harper) on our
> midlands psychology group website
> (http://www.midpsy.freeuk.com/paranoia.pdf) about paranoia, which
> develops some of these ideas and subjectivity (I think John's also one
> of the editors of the journal Subjectivity... is that right John?).
> > Best wishes
> > Craig Newnes
> >
> > (Craig once told me he was me and I was him, and presumably we were
> both everybody else, so...)
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harris Carl (R3) BCH"
> <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>>
> > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:03 AM
> > Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] subjective experience of taking
> anti-psychotic drugs
> >
> >
> > Hello All
> >
> > I just wanted to go back to the bit where Barbara was responding to
> John. I also found John's response particularly interesting.
> >
> > For me community psychology emphasises the importance of people's
> material experiences in relation to the things that they think. So its
> our social experience that determines our consciousness rather than the
> other way around.
> >
> > But then there is also the material part of ourselves. The problem
> for me is that the thinking about the material part of the human
> experience is often medicalised. The brain has been colonised by, for
> instance, MRI scans which are, in turn, used to support notions like
> "ADHD" which decontextualise people's experiences and actions.
> >
> > David Smail has talked about the body as the basis of human
> experience. John Cromby has talked about "embodiment" at different
> times. Has this thinking been developed and where? Can it be used to
> help develop our understanding of how our social experiences relate to
> our material selves?
> >
> > Philosophical of Birmingham
> >
> > PS I would also like to know what the person who is calling
> themselves Craig Newnes has done with the real Craig.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>] On Behalf Of Gopfert, Michael
> > Sent: 11 June 2009 09:48
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> > Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] subjective experience of taking
> anti-psychotic drugs
> >
> > It sounds like a near psychotic experience: if you had a folie-a-deux
> between two (or more) of the identities involved it would lead to a
> merger and could represent cure?
> >
> > Michael Göpfert,
> > [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> > Skype: Michael.g1947
> > Work 44-151-7246872
> > ________________________________________
> > From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
> [[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>] On Behalf Of Mark Rapley
> [[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>]
> > Sent: 10 June 2009 23:21
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> > Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] subjective experience of taking
> anti-psychotic drugs
> >
> > My doppelganger disagrees with me about the existence of my - or is
> it ur -
> > inner world(s). S/he is from Fiji. Or thereabouts. So s/he says.
> > But s/he - or is it me - paints quite well...
> > Yours PG (we think, for now)
> >
> > Mark Rapley, PhD,
> > Professor of Clinical Psychology,
> > Programme Director - Doctoral Degree in Clinical Psychology,
> > School of Psychology,
> > University of East London,
> > London, E15 4LZ,
> > U.K.
> >
> > Tel: +44 (0)208 223 6392 (Direct)
> > Tel: +44 (0)208 223 4567 (Messages)
> > Tel: +44 (0)7951 908409 (Mobile)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List on behalf of CRAIG
> NEWNES
> > Sent: Wed 6/10/2009 21:39
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> > Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] subjective experience of taking
> > anti-psychotic drugs
> >
> > What, exactly, is an "inner world?" The cultures I know of are
> Polynesian.
> > C
> >
> > --- On Wed, 10/6/09, Greta Sykes <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Greta Sykes <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>>
> > Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] subjective experience of taking
> > anti-psychotic drugs
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> > Date: Wednesday, 10 June, 2009, 2:37 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yes, very interesting - where are they?
> > How come an artist paints in a style that we all recognise for his or her
> > style, if they are not a person and don't perceive their own inner needs?
> >
> > One can take social construction perhaps too far, as we do exist as
> > individuals, unique ones at that, in term of our blood, genes,
> fingerprints
> > and unique set of emotions and thoughts. These we can at leisure
> observe from
> > the inside - and from the outside via other peoples' social
> constructions of
> > us - as Helen said; we are each necessarily the best observer of our
> inner
> > world, or observers, if you have multiple personalities,
> >
> > Greta
> >
> >
> >
> > From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>] On Behalf Of tim anstiss
> > Sent: 10 June 2009 10:16
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> > Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] subjective experience of taking
> > anti-psychotic drugs
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > that sounds interesting - which cultures are these?
> >
> >
> >
> > Tim
> >
> > --- On Wed, 10/6/09, CRAIG NEWNES <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>> wrote:
> >
> > From: CRAIG NEWNES <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>>
> > Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] subjective experience of taking
> > anti-psychotic drugs
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> > Date: Wednesday, 10 June, 2009, 10:12 AM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > You have to believe in the concept of "persons" to write this. All
> over the
> > world people do indeed believe they change by the minute - in some
> cultures
> > "responsibility" for the self is unknown because "selves" change daily -
> > hence you can't be held responsible for something done yesterday - and
> > "achievement" is unheard of
> >
> > Craig
> >
> > --- On Wed, 10/6/09, COMBES Helen A <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: COMBES Helen A <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>>
> > Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] subjective experience of taking
> > anti-psychotic drugs
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> > Date: Wednesday, 10 June, 2009, 10:00 AM
> >
> >
> > Dear Philosophical of Birmingham
> >
> > You raise some interesting points. I think that we are the best
> observers of
> > our inner world and in that sense we are the most objective viewers
> of our
> > experience. Through language we can have some shared understanding
> and of
> > course language is an extremely useful tool but it is always limited.
> >
> > Your post script about true selves as the subjective is also
> interesting. Do
> > we become another person when we change our minds, when we move,
> change/lose
> > our jobs/parents. I doubt it?!
> >
> > Helen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>] On Behalf Of Harris Carl (R3) BCH
> > Sent: 08 June 2009 16:51
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> > Subject: Re: subjective experience of taking anti-psychotic drugs
> >
> > Dear all
> >
> > Helen's revival of this dialogue coincides with a brief discussion of
> social
> > constructionism today in my place of work.
> >
> > Does a subjective experience imply the existence of an individual
> "subject"
> > that is separate from that which is being experienced? If our
> experiences are
> > all socially constructed then this separation is problematic, as we
> cannot
> > separate ourselves from the social processes through which we encounter
> > ourselves and the world. In a sense, therefore, all of our
> experiences are
> > non-subjective, as they are constructed through our collective
> languaging,
> > thinking and practice, although "we" (as individual organisms) seem to be
> > aware of something going on (and are, therefore, having an experience).
> >
> > Is that what you were saying, Helen, when you referred to the notion
> of "what
> > one observes in the here and now without language (if that is ever
> > possible)"?
> >
> > So, although in "our society" we are construed as individuals who have
> > subjective experiences, this is itself a social construction.
> >
> > What would a critical realist response to this be? Would it be to say
> that
> > all social practices perform a social function and that, while they
> are all
> > ultimately based on one set of indefensible assumptions or another, it is
> > their effects in the "real world" that matter. We can observe and
> experience
> > their effects for ourselves (referring, if we like, to our "subjective
> > experiences") and can perceive their effects on those around us. We
> can see
> > who wins and who loses through the "winning out" of one version of
> reality or
> > another.
> >
> > This takes me back to the question that David Fryer suggests we ask, "In
> > whose interest is it that this should be believed?"
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Philosophical of Birmingham
> >
> >
> > PS I wonder also whether the term subjective in the context of taking
> > anti-psychotic drugs refers to the notion of a "true self". Whether
> that is
> > the self that is "sane", "experiencing psychosis", or "taking
> anti-psychotic
> > drugs" is beyond me.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>] On Behalf Of COMBES Helen A
> > Sent: 08 June 2009 11:19
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> > Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] subjective experience of taking
> > anti-psychotic drugs
> >
> >
> > Maybe what one observes in the here and now without language (if that
> is ever
> > possible)!
> >
> > Helen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>] On Behalf Of Suzanne Elliott
> > Sent: 20 May 2009 15:11
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> > Subject: Re: subjective experience of taking anti-psychotic drugs
> > Hi craig
> >
> > Hmmm. serious and interesting question. I need to be more cautious about
> > what I reproduce with the copy-and-paste function!!
> >
> > I wonder whether it was a way of presenting people's experiences that
> suited
> > ACTA PSYCHIATRICA
> > SCANDINAVICA who published the article. A bit like the BPS calling this
> > months 'beyond cbt' theme in the Psychologist mag an 'opinion special'.
> >
> > suzanne
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>] On Behalf Of CRAIG NEWNES
> > Sent: 20 May 2009 14:53
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> > Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] subjective experience of taking
> > anti-psychotic drugs
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Suzanne, Serious question: What is a non-subjective experience?
> >
> > Craig
> >
> > --- On Wed, 20/5/09, Suzanne Elliott
> <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>>
> > wrote:
> >
> > From: Suzanne Elliott <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>>
> > Subject: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] subjective experience of taking
> anti-psychotic
> > drugs
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> > Date: Wednesday, 20 May, 2009, 9:01 AM
> >
> >
> > Hi everyone
> >
> > Someone sent me a link to this paper (below), I haven't looked at the
> full
> > article yet, but it looks interesting.
> >
> > Suzanne
> >
> > Below is a summary of the findings of an interesting study looking at the
> > personal experience of taking antipsychotic medication. The full
> paper can be
> > reached at www.mentalhealth.freeuk.com/acta.pdf
> >
> > The subjective experience of taking antipsychotic medication: a content
> > analysis of Internet data
> >
> > Significant outcomes
> > . Sedation, impaired cognition and emotional flattening and
> indifference were
> > most frequently
> > associated with all the drugs examined. Few respondents mentioned
> pleasant
> > effects such as calmness
> > or relaxation.
> > . Although, the main subjective effects were shared by the different
> > antipsychotics, they were
> > associated with a different profile of physical effects.
> > . Some respondents described a beneficial impact of the main subjective
> > mental effects of the
> > antipsychotic drugs on their psychiatric symptoms.
> >
> > Limitations
> > . The generalisability of data from Internet users is uncertain, and
> a bias
> > towards negative comments
> > may exist. However, the demographic and clinical profile of respondents
> > resembles that of recipients
> > of out-patient prescriptions of antipsychotics.
> > . Little information on dose or concurrent medications was available.
> > . We could not assess the prevalence
> >
> > ___________________________________ COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion
> list
> > for community psychology in the UK . To unsubscribe or to change your
> details
> > visit the website:
> > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=COMMUNITYPSYCHUK For any
> > problems or queries, contact the list moderator: Grant Jeffrey
> > ([log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>)
> > ___________________________________ COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion
> list
> > for community psychology in the UK . To unsubscribe or to change your
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> > ([log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
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> >
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> > To unsubscribe or to change your details visit the website:
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> Jeffrey ([log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> <mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>)
> > This material has been checked by us for computer viruses using
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> > If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying,
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> > the opinion of Birmingham Children's Hospital NHS Foundation Trust unless
> > explicitly stated to the contrary.
> >
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> > ___________________________________ COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion
> list for community psychology in the UK. To unsubscribe or to change
> your details visit the website:
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>
> -- ********************************************************
> John Cromby
> Department of Human Sciences
> Loughborough University
> Loughborough, Leics
> LE11 3TU England
> Tel: 01509 223000
> Email: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Personal webpage: http://www-staff.lboro.ac.uk/~hujc4/
> Co-Editor, "Subjectivity": www.palgrave-journals.com/sub
> ********************************************************
>
> ___________________________________
> COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion list for community psychology in the UK.
> To unsubscribe or to change your details visit the website:
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=COMMUNITYPSYCHUK
> For any problems or queries, contact the list moderator: Grant Jeffrey
> ([log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>)
>
> ___________________________________ COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion
> list for community psychology in the UK. To unsubscribe or to change
> your details visit the website:
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=COMMUNITYPSYCHUK For any
> problems or queries, contact the list moderator: Grant Jeffrey
> ([log in to unmask])
--
********************************************************
John Cromby
Department of Human Sciences
Loughborough University
Loughborough, Leics
LE11 3TU England
Tel: 01509 223000
Email: [log in to unmask]
Personal webpage: http://www-staff.lboro.ac.uk/~hujc4/
Co-Editor, "Subjectivity": www.palgrave-journals.com/sub
********************************************************
___________________________________
COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion list for community psychology in the UK.
To unsubscribe or to change your details visit the website:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=COMMUNITYPSYCHUK
For any problems or queries, contact the list moderator: Grant Jeffrey ([log in to unmask])
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