Are you sure about Ford, Mark - in my memory it was Webster. If he was, as 
is assumed by some, born in 1580 (in London), then in 1590 (earliest 
possible date of R&J) he would have been 10 - not far out, I would say from 
my memory of this grubby as you say bloodyminded youth. In later years he 
was registered at the Inns of Court (his legal knowledge makes that 
identification probable).
Ms. Paltrow's charms leave me cold, I'm afraid, though I am fairly straight 
(my favourite actress is the late Irene Dunne, who didn't need to disrobe. 
Of the living, I find Susan Sarandon attractive - she has appeared in 
another boisterous "theatre" play directed by John Turturro.)
Martin
_______________________________________
But I am but a nameless sort of person
(A broken Dandy lately on my travels)
And take for rhyme, to hook my rambling verse on,
The first that Walker's Lexicon unravels

- George Gordon, Lord Byron
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Weiss" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: How poetry is writ


> SIL is built around an anachronism--the portrayal of Elizabethan 
> theatrical life as if it were just like today's. As such, an amusing take 
> on Stoppard's, if not Shakespeare's, world. And there's that offhand 
> anachronism of portrayiong John Ford as a bloody-minded London 
> guttersnipe, a bit of a reach, since when R&J was written he would have 
> been 4 or 5 and snug in the family bosom in Devon.
>
> The film has two virtues. First, it gives I think a reasonably accurate 
> look at what London must have been like in all its unhygienic glory. 
> Second, and far more important, it showcases far more og Gwyneth Paltrow 
> than merely her acting talent. But that, as you say, may be a guy thing.
>
> I was in Budapest for the first time last summer. The very small 
> gussied-up section of Buda and the tourist enclave of Pest were severely 
> at odds with the tumbledown condition of the rest of the city, where whole 
> neighborhoods of superb art nouveau and art deco architecture appear to be 
> crumbling away.
>
> Mark
>
> At 01:51 PM 4/4/2009, you wrote:
>>Hey, Martin. a dear brilliant well read male friend and I were discussing
>>Stoppard, and one of our conclusions was that appreciating him is a 'man
>>thing', [sort of like appreciating The Three Stooges  ;-)].
>>My view of 'man things' [is that they're wonderful, but that's a nother
>>topic]....is that menfolk challenge one a nother, whereas femalefolk try 
>>to
>>get everybody to understand everybody else ['make nice', in other words].
>>  Hence, males will drop obtuse refs like dandruff to see if anyone's 
>> bright
>>enuff to 'get' them and give some back.  I do see the value in that 
>>process;
>>it guarantees that folk are on their toes, at the top of their game, ready
>>to do battle, win the fair maiden, and so on.  And, quite frankly, no, 
>>quite
>>judily, I think it's a damned effective mechanism.
>>
>>I saw SIL in Pest, the subtitles in English, and it was followed by The
>>Godfather.  I was so demoralised at being in my 'mother country' and 
>>seeing
>>its devastated economy and ground-under magnificent culture, that I wanted
>>to vomit.  Hence, I may've missed some of the subtleties of that damned
>>Stoppard.  I also saw [can't recall title] his play that begins with a
>>not-told-to-audience play within a play and unfolds with an adulterer who
>>doesn't understand why his wives keep cuckolding him.  Stoppard, 
>>reasonably,
>>declines to explain his plays to the adoring audiences; he's been accused 
>>by
>>some critics who say he blatantly 'borrows' ideas for plays [we're not
>>talking about clever subtle hidden 'refs' that are made to challenge our
>>brainfiles].  Fundamentally, I think he's a fake, or at best an
>>under-mediocre playwright.  But, then, he's not trying, apparently, to 
>>give
>>us profound plays.
>>
>>Mary Sidney was, tho, a writer of profound plays [that is, the works often
>>attributed to Shaksper].
>>
>>Who are Schlegel and Tieck?  Re German:  One summer before going on one of
>>those really cheap Around The World in a year flights and being allowed to
>>stop ANYWHERE you wanted as long as you didn't backtrack, I decided to 
>>learn
>>German and Hungarian, and renew my Chinese and French.  I ended up
>>understanding how to read and pronounce Hungarian, as well as being
>>fascinated with the differences between French and German socio-culture as
>>evidenced in what they most preferred talking about.  Ended up being a bit
>>like a friend auto mechanic [native Hungarian living in the USA] said: 
>>"If
>>your car breaks down in France, have it towed to Germany."
>>
>>j balizs prince
>>
>>2009/4/4 Martin Walker <[log in to unmask]>
>>
>> > Ms. Judy Prince >>Besides you and Droo
>> >
>> >> and MW, tho, who on petc has a weird-enough mindset for >>it?
>> >>>
>> >> Nymph, in thy orisons be all my sins remembered. I *know I should 
>> >> order a
>> > new one, it makes all kinds of rude noises and dribbles some strange
>> > greenish lube over the settee.
>> > PS I liked the Steinian bit at the beginning of SIL: some guy is 
>> > haranguing
>> > listeners in a populous thoroughfare about abolishing the theatres: "A 
>> > Rose
>> > is a Rose is a..." (it's very faint, I think the guy is attacking the
>> > corrupting effect of plays, it disappeared altogether in the German 
>> > dubbing
>> > according to those I've asked. Germans, my mountaineering Hausarzt
>> > fr'instance, tend to love SIL, it sort of defuses the oppressive weight 
>> > of
>> > Schlegel & Tieck). That was Stoppard's contribution, rather UTT (under 
>> > the
>> > threshold, since you asked) than OTT...
>> > Goo'night, sweet Prince...
>> > _______________________________________
>> > But I am but a nameless sort of person
>> > (A broken Dandy lately on my travels)
>> > And take for rhyme, to hook my rambling verse on,
>> > The first that Walker's Lexicon unravels
>> >
>> > - George Gordon, Lord Byron
>> >