medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
From: Robert Kraft <[log in to unmask]>
> Sometimes I wonder if we are all looking at the same images.
that's a reasonable explanation.
though there is only one leaf here, with only two sides, a recto and a verso.
i'll try and insert links to the precise ones, as i go along.
>While it may be true that nothing has been changed on the second side (the
side with the unadorned blue large S in Solue)
given the location of the sewing holes, we might call that the "verso" of the
leaf, mightn't we not?
> where bleed-through is indeed evident,
bleed-through is evident on both sides, is it not?
>it is also clear that on the first side (with the decorated red S),
by default (if nothing else, accepting the premise re the other side), we
could style that one as the "verso."
>that entire line which now reads Sede(runt) has been modified,
how is that "clear"?
>and the underwriting is still decipherable (Et enim sede).
you lost me entirely there.
perhaps we are not looking at the same image.
but i'll be jiggered if i can see an "Et enim sede" anywhere on this page
and i can see no "underwriting" below the main text of the chant, anywhere,
you Manuscript guys sure do have sharp eyes.
clearly, i should stick to Monumental Sculpture.
or go for Architecture.
or, morebetter, City Planning.
or change my glasses prescription.
or, perhaps, All of the Above.
>And it doesn't take much paleographical skill
now your talking my language.
>to observe that the newly written "d" in that line
the "Se*d*e" line...
>is not appropriate to the original hand -- see the final line on that page
(domine deus) or the Solue line on the next page ending with "de."
or the "d" in "aduersu[m]" just below the "Sede".
yes, even i can see that.
>The ink of that "new style" "d" also created more obvious
bleed-through on the other side of the page (in the Solue line).
reading as a light "b" between "Sol" and "ue".
the "d" on the first line of the recto is a definite "insertion," most likely
by a different (and more archaic??) hand, but not *necessarily* a modern one.
>Also the left side curvature of the two "e" letters in the rewritten line
>is too smooth/regular when compared to the original "e" letters.
i would say that those first "e"s are much more rounded and "fat" (to use the
technical jargon) than the "original" ones elsewhere on both sides.
>When and why the changes were made is another matter,
>but changes there were, at least on that decorated line.
taking Erik's original point about the "shadow" letters in that line being
"erasures" (and discarding my previous suggestion that they are bleed-throughs
from a facing page), we would simply have some mistaken text in that line
which was replaced (whenever) by a correct (and much shorter) one.
but, that Dog won't Hunt: *what* text could have been there?
starting with the "original" ornamented (but not illuminated), white-on-blue
"E", a word (or syllable) or two, a phrase which ends in the "ru[n]t" in the
doesn't make much sense.
seems to me (unencumbered by any actual knowledge of the subject) that a page
like this would have been "built" up in stages.
first pricked and ruled (not visible in these .jpgs), then
the box for the initial initial and the musical lining traced out, then the
text and the music itself (which of those came first??)...
i just don't see how a "mistake" like we see in that first line could have
nor do i see how the "e...de" could have been a modern insertion.
the nice thing about a complex problem like this is that, more often than not,
there is only one way the pieces to the jig-saw puzzle can go together.
all that has to be done is to find that one, good, solution which satisfies
all the necessary parameters.
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