medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture

Maddy,

>I've often felt that about the 1st millenniun 
>'national hands' like Luxeuil: they seem 
>deliberately obscure, presumably to slow the 
>reader down (bit like the qwertyuiop keyboard, to slow the typist's fingers).

No, neither is intended to slow anyone down.

The layout of a keyboard is designed to have the 
most frequently used letters in the central zone 
for each hand. The purpose is to increase speed 
and efficiency -- which it does. There are 
professional typists who hold a steady 160 words a minute.

Many scripts are designed to be read only by 
initiates. For example, chancery fonts are not 
intended to be read by outsiders. The font used 
by the chancery scribes of the Merovingian Rulers 
has been said to resemble the "workings of a 
demented spider." These scripts frequently use an 
inordinate quantity of abbreviations, for 
example, the chancery font of the first CE in 
Aramaic used on the ossuary known as Rahmani 570.

In both cases, what you are used to is easy -- 
whether reading (or writing) a script or typing..

>On early Welsh carved stones, on the other hand, 
>I think the problem is that many of them are 
>clearly carved by someone who cannot read or 
>write, copying from an exemplar. the interlace 
>carving is intricate and mathematically perfect, 
>the lettering is dreadful. Not stylised but simply badly carved.

The perfectly carved interlace tells you that you 
shouldn't blame the carver. The stone carver 
follows the written text exactly. These documents 
are far more likely badly written. Stone scribes 
were an advanced training specialty. Writing on 
stone if you are not accustomed to it can make 
the writing of a fully literate person look like 
it was written by a semi-lit. Then  again, what 
we may consider badly written may not have been 
considered that by contemporaries.

>Text on walls (and eg in stained glass) is 
>different again. Presumably the viewer could 
>learn to recognise certain key phrases - the 
>clauses of the Apostles' Creed, or the Ave 
>Maria, perhaps - even if not fully functionally 
>literate as we would understand it.

As far as the pseudo-text on badges, etc. goes, 
the written word, was considered to hold magical 
qualities. Consider all those amulets with 
"godly" writing on them (e.g., the priestly 
blessing on silver rolled into an amulet from the 
7th BCE ). So, yes, we could expect writing, 
whether pseudo or 'real', to appear on these 
objects to enhance its value. And then there were 
those Medieval doctors who would write sacred 
text on a piece of parchment, rinse the ink off 
and have the patient drink the liquid as a cure.

Rochelle (back to lurking)

>Maddy
>
>Dr Madeleine Gray
>Senior Lecturer in History
>School of Education/Ysgol Addysg
>University of Wales, Newport/Prifysgol Cymru, Casnewydd
>Caerleon Campus/Campws Caerllion,
>Newport/Casnewydd  NP18 3QT Tel: +44 (0)1633.432675
>
>'You may not be able to change the world but at 
>least you can embarrass the guilty'
>(Jessica Mitford)
>
>
>----------
>From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions 
>of medieval religious culture on behalf of Christopher Crockett
>Sent: Wed 18/03/2009 2:57 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [M-R] ISO help with basic Arabic
>
>
>hélas, i have yet to take time to read this thoroughly.
>
> >a sort of image of writing produced by someone who knew roughly what writing
>looked like, knew it was important because it could embody meaning, but wasn't
>actually literate as we understand it?
>
>that's certainly the way i see it (as the pre-eminent Blind Man, eager to lure
>others into the Ditch with him).





>it seems to me that "text" itself, simply as "text," was recognizable as
>"text," even by those who hadn't a prayer of "reading" what it said --indeed,
>even if it was "illegible" gibberish-- and, as such, possessed immense
>Prestige and, indeed, a cachet of The Mysterious.
>
>that's the only explanation i can think of for the presence of these
>"pseudo-inscriptions" on, particularly (but not exclusively) pilgrims' badges
>--which are themselves, in the main and with relatively few exceptions, folk
>artifacts of quite mediocre [artistic] quality, surely the work of rather
>modest, secular artisans (though their production was, always, strictly
>monitored --and taxed-- by the resident clergy).
>
> >  (My big interest here is that I'm working on the use of text in medieval
>wall paintings in ordinary parish churches, where most of those who saw the
>text wouldn't have been able to read. Not an exact parallel but I found
>Bredehoft's ideas on pilgrim badges and textual communities very useful.)
>
>(no doubt as would i, should i take the time to actually read it.)
>
>presumably your parish church inscriptions are actual, legible texts --and
>*some*one could read them. [?]
>
>as opposed to the pseudo-text phenomenon on the badges --whose purpose was
>perfectly well served by their simply giving the *appearance* of "text."
>
>a related (or not) phenomenon might be the much more prevelant manifestation
>of text as epigraphy --carved on stone.
>
>even the Severely Epigraphically Challenged (i.e., me) can see that the
>prevailing custom in 11th-12th c. stone inscriptions was to "go for the
>decorative effect" [i.e., an "art form" which was in direct conflict with
>legibility] while, at the same time, presenting the [hapless, would-be] reader
>with a legitimate and [ultimately] legible text.
>
>i did a bit of work on two inscriptions from the Moissac cloister a few years
>ago (with very little to show for it in the end).
>
>one from 1100, "Tempore domini Ansqvitilii Abbatis" is highly decorative, but,
>i found, ultimately legible:
>
><http://ariadne.org/cc/moissac/M_1100.jpg>http://ariadne.org/cc/moissac/M_1100.jpg
>
>and comparatively "simple."
>
>as opposed to, say, this one from 1063:
>
><http://ariadne.org/cc/moissac/M_1063.jpg>http://ariadne.org/cc/moissac/M_1063.jpg
>
>simpler in letter forms and "contractions" ["lettres enclavées," what do you
>call those?], but *much* more difficult to deal with, textually.
>
>here's how i transcribed it (with help from l'Abbé's Sacrosanct Concilia
>edition):
>
><http://ariadne.org/cc/moissac/1063trans.html>http://ariadne.org/cc/moissac/1063trans.html
>
>the fine historian, Jean Dufour, who wrote his dissertation on the library and
>scriptorium of Moissac, said of this one:
>
>“Cette inscription suite la mode du temps, qui voulait que le texte fût
>obscur .... Nombreuses lettres enclavées; lettres de formes arrondies.”
>
>A perceptive comment, if something of an understatement...
>
>obviously, neither of these inscriptions was intended for the illiterate --on
>the contrary, their intended audience (in the cloister itself) would have been
>only the most accomplished of "readers."
>
>just transcribing the things was a challenge; "reading" the "text obscure"
>--esp. of the 1063 inscription-- would have been far beyond all but the most
>seasoned and accomplished of litterati.
>
>and fully appreciating its considerable "literary" qualities would have been a
>step or two beyond that.
>
>best i can see, these were intended, not to allow 20th c. art hysterians to
>date the cloister sculptures, but rather as intense meditational exercises for
>contemporaries.
>
>along these lines, though i don't think that he discusses these two
>(non-portal) inscriptinons, this book might be of some assistance (even with
>your parish paintings, Maddy):
>
>Calvin B. Kendall, The allegory of the church: romanesque portals and their
>verse inscriptions.
>University of Toronto Press, 1998.
>xv, 399 pp., [40] p. of plates : ill. ; 24 cm.
>
>
>i bought a copy of it when it first came out, but haven't yet read it,
>characteristically only looked at the pretty pictures.
>
>Jim has read it, however, and might could share his expertise on the matter.
>
>c
>
>
> > Maddy
> >
> > Dr Madeleine Gray
> > Senior Lecturer in History
> > School of Education/Ysgol Addysg
> > University of Wales, Newport/Prifysgol Cymru, Casnewydd
> > Caerleon Campus/Campws Caerllion,
> > Newport/Casnewydd  NP18 3QT Tel: +44 (0)1633.432675
> >
> > 'You may not be able to change the world but at least you can embarrass the
>guilty'
> > (Jessica Mitford)
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious
>culture on behalf of Chris Laning
> > Sent: Tue 17/03/2009 6:22 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [M-R] ISO help with basic Arabic
> >
> >
> >
> > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
> >
> > Madeleine wrote:
> > >Can you say a bit more about the 'pseudo-calligraphy' - it sounds rather
> > >reminiscent of Tom Bredehoft's work on pseudo-writing on pilgrim badges
> >
> > Quite a few Islamic textiles are decorated with calligraphy -- usually
>rather stylized (i.e. it often doesn't look a whole lot like written Arabic at
>first glance). It's quite possible this has something to do with the Islamic
>reluctance to use images as decoration: many of the other motifs that show up
>together with the calligraphy are geometric, such as stars. The inscriptions
>(depending on context) can be short or long, and many of them are religious --
>"The blessing of Allah upon so-and-so", for instance, or "Allah is most
>glorious." Others are more secular: "Success and happiness", for instance.
>This custom seems to have originated with the *tiraz* textiles that were given
>as rewards to courtiers by various rulers.
> >
> > As the use of such motifs spread, imitations arose, and as designers played
>with the idea, decorative patterns arose which look a great deal like
>calligraphy at first glance, but which actually don't say anything. Either
>they are nonsensical combinations of letters, or in some cases they look
>rather like Arabic letters but aren't identifiable. This also happened as
>these designs migrated to Europe, where the significance of the calligraphy
>wasn't understood, but it occurs in Islamic textiles as well.
> >
> > Islamic lettering is rather flexible, in that the shapes of the letters can
>be somewhat distorted and still quite legible. In particular, the ascenders
>and descenders can be long or short, and there is definitely a fashion for
>manipulating lettering so that it also forms a picture -- something that looks
>like a row of buildings, for instance. I've seen modern lettering that reads
>"Peace" in the shape of a dove, and I have pictures of an 11th century Islamic
>textile where the word "Victory" has been shaped so that the vertical lines
>suggest a pillared hall with hanging lamps.
> >
> > My problem is, since I'm not able to *read* the lettering, I can't easily
>tell whether an inscription I'm looking at is real (but distorted) lettering
>that actually spells something, or whether it's pseudo-calligraphy. And before
>I publish an assertion that something is meaningless (or meaningful), I'd like
>to be assured that I'm right ;)
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > 0  Chris Laning
> > |  <[log in to unmask]>
> > +  Davis, California
> > 
> <http://paternoster-row.org/>http://paternoster-row.org 
> <http://paternoster-row.org/>   -
><http://paternosters.blogspot.com/>http://paternosters.blogspot.com 
><http://paternosters.blogspot.com/>
> > ____________________________________________________________
> >
> > **********************************************************************
> > To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME
> > to: [log in to unmask]
> > To send a message to the list, address it to:
> > [log in to unmask]
> > To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion
> > to: [log in to unmask]
> > In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to:
> > [log in to unmask]
> > For further information, visit our web site:
> > 
> <http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html>http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html
> >
> >
> >
> > **********************************************************************
> > To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME
> > to: [log in to unmask]
> > To send a message to the list, address it to:
> > [log in to unmask]
> > To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion
> > to: [log in to unmask]
> > In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to:
> > [log in to unmask]
> > For further information, visit our web site:
> > 
> <http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html>http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html
> >
>**********************************************************************
>To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME
>to: [log in to unmask]
>To send a message to the list, address it to:
>[log in to unmask]
>To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion
>to: [log in to unmask]
>In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to:
>[log in to unmask]
>For further information, visit our web site:
><http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html>http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html
>********************************************************************** 
>To join the list, send the message: join 
>medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: 
>[log in to unmask] To send a message to the 
>list, address it to: 
>[log in to unmask] To leave the 
>list, send the message: leave medieval-religion 
>to: [log in to unmask] In order to report 
>problems or to contact the list's owners, write 
>to: [log in to unmask] For 
>further information, visit our web site: 
>http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html

**********************************************************************
To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME
to: [log in to unmask]
To send a message to the list, address it to:
[log in to unmask]
To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion
to: [log in to unmask]
In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to:
[log in to unmask]
For further information, visit our web site:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html