Hi Chris - what you describe as "novel poetics" (things/voices being
contested) is what I'd call the poetics of drama. (Which is, need I
say, not the same as the poetics of theatre... but we'll leave that
one). Yes, definitely part of the kinds of novels your describe, and
not just recent novels either, but not, if you like, what necessarily
differentiates them from poems - which can also be full of contesting
voices...but which does in my mind link them to theatre. So the plot
thickens...
And absolutely yes, one has to question one's practice all the time,
or risk complacency, which is worst of all. I guess I work across a
range of practice (criticism, theatre writing, poetry, prose) which
causes a constant frottage. Not always comfortable nor even erotic I
admit but often enough so to make it worthwhile.
> Also, in reviewing our positions we also find gaps which allow something
> else to emerge.
Yes, lots of gaps. Otherwise life would be dull, no?
xA
On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 7:49 PM, Christopher C Jones
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Ha, but Alison by disagreeing in this way we are beginning very much to
> understand each other. (I may have been over the top in the tone, not
> intended but difficult. In a nice way, I mean.)
>
> To make it even more confusing I also should defend Doug by questioning
> this idea of privilege which sometimes get attached to university
> teachers. I am sure most uni or college teachers would agree that it is
> a job which pays housing, food and transport and you are stuck between
> the demands of a your employer and student needs which sounds no
> different to the jobs I have had. It seems to me this idea of privilege
> takes on an absolute value which is, of course, ridiculous. That sort of
> claim of privilege needs further questioning from my angle.
>
> Now, the other thing I am thinking is we as poets should be constantly
> reviewing what we write since this goes toward making a lyric poetics.
> In this review also and in this exchange a difference is being made
> between a novel poetics and a lyric poetics also. A lot of recent
> novels, it seems to me, work on this trope of a tribunal or contest in
> which there is an exchange of positions which allow different power
> levels for characters and in which the tables get turned, so to speak.
> So we can say there is a novel poetics that work in this short term way
> of a sort of contesting of positions in which often that which has moved
> itself into a seeming less powerful position has the power to end the
> novel in its favour. This is perhaps where the politics comes in?
>
> As for lyric, it seems to me that for lyric to hook into the tenor of
> its time it really has no other choice but to be critical since the
> modern idea of eternity can make no other demand then that of change.
> And so it appears maybe that there is a type of coming together of lyric
> and novel poetics which flattens both??? Is this what is happening? (I
> don't really know, of course.)
>
> Also interesting in that in having identical positions we can only
> arrive at this through a contested debate. Can we also be looking at
> some of the heat that surrounded debates on language poetry, also? This
> I find curious, especially since I am not that well read in language
> poetry.
>
> Also, in reviewing our positions we also find gaps which allow something
> else to emerge.
>
> Anyways, I am writing between gaps so apologies for the confusion. I had
> attempted better but the self determination of my computer software
> determined otherwise. (Sometimes, at times like this, we need a
> telephone.)
>
>
>
> On Fri, 2009-03-27 at 17:30 +1100, Alison Croggon wrote:
>> Chris, you totally misunderstand me. If you read what I wrote in On
>> Lyric, we are saying virtually identical things. I wholly agree that
>> lyric is not a "category". And where the hell did I accuse you of
>> being in breach of anything?
>>
>> As for Gluck, Cooper and Sedgwick, I can't speak about them because
>> haven't read them. (I could talk about Genet, one of my favourite
>> writers - and a condiserable lyricist imho - because I have read him,
>> but you haven't mentioned him.) Being unaware of her work is
>> presumably why you've equally ignored my mention of Desbordes... I'm
>> taking the generous attitude and assuming it's not because you're a
>> horrible misogynist or hate the French?
>>
>> And there I was, thinking we were getting somewhere in understanding
>> each other...Never mind.
>>
>> xA
>>
>
--
Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au
Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com
Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com
|