I sent it to the list at 11.41 this morning - not sure why it hasn't arrived???
since there is now no 10 hour rule at all - perhaps we could discuss a way to justify the full hours needed.
I do like Bernard's suggestion of the EP making the recommendations, after all that is the most highly qualified person in the chain, and the one who has spent most time with the student, HOWEVER many seem to have little idea of university systems, let alone the DSA intricacies.
perhaps its time to bring them into the fold? a standardised diagnostic report format would help many of us to understand the student better, and to find the important info. If all EPs (PATOSS are already on board) were brought up to date on the study skills issue, leaving assessors free to work out the technology... would that work better????
or maybe I've just answered my own query - leave the diagnostics to PATOSS / BDA certificated assessors, most of whom are probably study skills specialist teachers anyway????
anyway, let's try to be positive in finding the best workable solution
________________________________
From: Discussion list for disabled students and their support staff. on behalf of BERNARD DOHERTY
Sent: Sat 07/02/2009 12:08
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Needs Assessments and the 10 hour rule
Peter, I think you're confusing the orginator with simply the loudest proponent (so loud, in fact, that he was kicked from his own list). I don't know why this is being kept from this list, but the assessors' forum has seen a letter from Chris Dunlop, who now seems to be lead for the SLC take over of DSA administration.
As I read it, if recommendations for support go over 10 hours, the assessor is now supposed to detail what support is required and how it should be delivered. Here is the most entertaining element:
'We rely on the professionalism of Assessors to be able to qualify and quantify the type of support a student is likely to need in order to support a student's learning, and successfully complete their course of study. It is also expected that Assessors have the necessary level of skills and competence to allow them to formulate and develop such Student centred proposals.'
I am sufficiently experienced to recognise a missing hyphen and explain why it should be there. However, this is far from ensuring that someone with dyslexia would understand the rule and be able to implement it in future. Nonetheless, how information is to be taught to such a student is to be discovered at the same interview which is to be limited by rule to 2 hours and in which the assessor is to demonstrate all peripherals and software that is recommended in the report. Oh, and of course ultimately there is no obligation for a university or university employee to take any notice of the recommendations. If you are an experienced professional providing specialist study skills support to students with dyslexia (a job that has virtually nothing in common with assessing), perhaps you might point out the flaws in this new proposal to Chris. Perhaps, again, policy decisions would then stop being made without consultation with those working in the field.
(In case I'm veiwed as negative nancy here, my recommendation would be that appropriate support should be detailed in the EP's report as it often is already. Of course, my real recommendation would be to save vast quatities of time and money by not treating people working in disability as a gang of notorious fraudsters and embezzlers)
Regards, Bernard
Bernard Doherty
Assessor
Cambridge Access Centre
--- On Sat, 7/2/09, Peter Hill <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
From: Peter Hill <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Needs Assessments and the 10 hour rule
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Saturday, 7 February, 2009, 10:09 AM
Hi again
On reflection, pursuing the originator would be pointless (it was last time).
It might be worth giving some thought to where this could lead, especially when
combined with the new paperwork that Access Centres are having to adopt (I
believe the new report template probably came from the same place as the 10-hour
concept).
Reading between the lines of some of the official documentation that has been
referred to, the aim of the SLC may be to trim costs. However:
*Needs Assessments will be far more time consuming to complete (much longer
template, 3 quotes etc). There will almost certainly be pressures to increase
charges.
*Support Tutors and Disability Officers will have a further layer of admin to
set up and maintain - in order to process requests for further support when the
10 hours runs out. So - further pressure to increase charges.
*The SLC will have to process requests for additional hours (possibly up to 3
times per year) - again with cost implications.
No - the originator, having triggered a shambles, will, I'm sure, be happy
to keep his head down for a while. He'll probably pick up an MBE in a few
years time!
Regards
Peter
--------------------
Peter Hill wrote:
> Hi
>
> I thought we did this a couple of years ago when the issue first raised
its head. As I recall, the response of the person concerned was to set up his
own list, where he could moderate feedback. I'm sure he is still a member of
this list - but he has not posted for many months.
>
> Cheers
>
> Peter
> -----------------
>
> IanF wrote:
>> Why don't you ask the people who advised that this 10 hour rule
should be adopted to explain their reasoning and motivations for doing this, and
how they can justify it under the terms of the legislative framework? Maybe this
would help get to the bottom of this matter once and for all. It didn't just
appear out of thin air.
>>
>> Ian Francis
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pauline Sumner"
<[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 1:48 PM
>> Subject: Re: Needs Assessments and the 10 hour rule
>>
>>
>>> I find this so strange that we are trying very hard to provide a
>>> professional service for our students, yet still we are asking
the same
>>> questions for which we are no clearer about answers!!
>>> Pauline
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Discussion list for disabled students and their support
staff.
>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Alice Kemble-Davies
>>> Sent: 05 February 2009 13:37
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: FW: Needs Assessments and the 10 hour rule
>>>
>>> Sorry, I should clarify that question further in light of the
responses.
>>> If
>>> an HE is providing support in anticipation of DSA, usually 10
weeks will
>>> have
>>> passed before the process is complete. Will funding authorities
>>> therefore
>>> accept applications for 1-1 extensions prior to getting the needs
>>> assessment?
>>>
>>> Thanks again,
>>> Alice
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Alice Kemble-Davies
>>> Sent: 05 February 2009 13:31
>>> To: 'Discussion list for disabled students and their support
staff.'
>>> Subject: RE: Needs Assessments and the 10 hour rule
>>>
>>> Going back to Peter's original query about the dilemma of
HE's providing
>>> support in anticipation of DSA being approved, and the limitations
now
>>> presented in this context by the 10 hour rule - can anyone shed
any
>>> light?
>>>
>>> Many thanks,
>>>
>>> Alice
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Discussion list for disabled students and their support
staff.
>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of James Palfreman-Kay
>>> Sent: 05 February 2009 11:57
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: Needs Assessments and the 10 hour rule
>>>
>>> Thanks John for below. Could you provide a bit more information
about
>>> the
>>> letter you have mentioned below?
>>>
>>> Many thanks
>>>
>>> James
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Discussion list for disabled students and their support
staff.
>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Conway
>>> Sent: 05 February 2009 10:03
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: Needs Assessments and the 10 hour rule
>>>
>>> as Chris Dunlop is a member of this email forum and has signed a
letter
>>> explaining the procedure, perhaps he might circulate it and
explain its
>>> meaning to us all??? we really must have an end to rumours and
>>> confusion,
>>> PLEASE!
>>>
>>> Dr John S Conway BSc PhD FGS FRGS FHEA MNADP
>>> Director, MSc International Rural Development
>>> Director, BSc Countryside Management
>>> Chair, Research Committee
>>> Principal Lecturer : Soil & Earth Science
>>> Disability Officer
>>> Royal Agricultural College,
>>> Cirencester, Glos GL7 6JS
>>> tel 01285 652531 fax 01285 650219
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>> From: Discussion list for disabled students and their support
staff. on
>>> behalf of Claire Wickham
>>> Sent: Thu 05/02/2009 09:46
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: Needs Assessments and the 10 hour rule
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes...exactly Ros: we need to send off such a request and have so
far
>>> been
>>> unable to obtain clarification of the procedure and to whom the
>>> eventual
>>> decision will be communciated. If anyone has solved this I'd
love to
>>> know the
>>> answer.
>>>
>>> with thanks,
>>>
>>> Claire
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Discussion list for disabled students and their support
staff. on
>>> behalf of Ros Lehany
>>> Sent: Wed 04/02/2009 17:01
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: Needs Assessments and the 10 hour rule
>>>
>>> It's my understanding from several sources, including Elaine
Urquhart,
>>> that there is no limit to how many hours can be recommended by a
Needs
>>> Assessor but that only 10 hours will be granted initially. Extra
hours
>>> will need to be requested at a later date (and in this case it
could be
>>> immediately ) and will need to be backed up by written evidence of
need.
>>> In the future this evidence is likely to be a standardised ILP.
>>>
>>> What isn't clear, and what I am trying to find out, is where
this
>>> request goes. To SLC/LA or back to the Needs Assessor?
>>>
>>> Ros
>>>
>>> Ros Lehany
>>> Chair- Association of Dyslexia Specialists in Higher Education
>>>
>>> email: [log in to unmask]
>>> Work: 0113 2193038
>>> Mobile: 0779 149 4690
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Discussion list for disabled students and their support
staff.
>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Peter Hill
>>> Sent: 03 February 2009 16:49
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Needs Assessments and the 10 hour rule
>>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> I'm running into some difficulty with one of the HEIs whose
students I
>>> do Needs Assessments for. The disability service there is
particularly
>>> supportive and proactive. As a result, they often provide 1-1
dyslexia
>>> support on faith - before the student has gone through the DSA
process.
>>> Consequently, I am assessing students who have already received
well
>>> over 10 hours of support in the current academic year.
>>>
>>> I suppose I could recommend 10 hours - plus whatever has been
provided
>>> already. That could be quite messy though, as I could not
reliably
>>> quantify what has been provided, as I do not know how long it will
be
>>> before the awards officer agrees things (or not, as the case may
be).
>>> Hope that makes sense!
>>>
>>> I'm coming under some pressure from the HEI and urgently need
to resolve
>>> this.
>>>
>>> Any thoughts and advice would be much appreciated.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>>> --
>>> Peter J Hill
>>>
>>> Tel: 01905 391 547
>>> Mobile: 07751 792711
>>>
>>> Email: [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>> -----------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
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>
--
Peter J Hill
Tel: 01905 391 547
Mobile: 07751 792711
Email: [log in to unmask]
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