With you all the way until the very end, Mark.. the list is precisely 
*not* an anarchist organisation, because in actuality it is no 
organisation at all. And its precisely that lack of organisation that 
has generated our previous enforced apathy, our silence and hence 
effective complicity. Anarchists are not against organisation, they're 
against unaccountable and hierachical organisations. So ethically 
grounded action, yes; sorting ourselves out, yes; but please let's not 
confuse the issue. Otherwise I'll have to mention Kronstadt, and then 
who knows where that might lead...
J.x


Mark Burton wrote:
> Let me try and interpret myself, or elaborate what I was suggesting 
> together with some background:
> "There has been some discussion as to whether the wording needed 
> altering and also some discussion as to whether we wanted to send out 
> the statement.  However nobody actually seemed to disassociate 
> themselves from it and there was  a strong faction that concurred with 
> sending it out and also that suggested that in this urgent and quite 
> exceptional case debate shouldn't impede action.  Now had it looked like 
> a sizeable minority were against it I would have been reluctant to send 
> out the statement (50% was setting the bar high to try and draw out 
> everyone that would object).  Nobody said 'don't send it!' - but if they 
> did I apologise for missing this.  All this was done quickly and there 
> is a trade off between decisive action and democratic transparent 
> decision making which I do really value but not as an overriding 
> principle.  Now the deed is done and this decisive action by two list 
> members raises again the question for the list as a whole (or the 
> embryonic organisation that it may be soon to become?) as to how we 
> should organise decision making, leadership, what are the rules for 
> speaking on behalf of the network, so that decisive, authoritative 
> action can be taken on matters of social and community importance?"
> So yes it is problematic and I have to own some of that, but in the 
> final instance the problems are in the context (both the context of the 
> list and the context of there being challenging social reality that we 
> want to alter.
> 
> A further point - the list as it stands is an anarchist organisation - 
> it has no leadership but is a loose collective.  As Enrique Dussel 
> points out - anarchism is an unethical ideology because it suggests an 
> approach that is unworkable in any complex society (and I'd add any 
> organisation above a small size).  If we want ot take ethically grounded 
> action then we have to 'sort ourselves out'.
> 
> 
> 
> David Fryer wrote:
>> Dear Mark,
>>
>> I find the following comment, and what it suggests about the position taken up with regard to transparency, accountability, the relationship between means and ends and towards fellow list members on this list very problematic: "If the process was less than transparent and democratic that should spur the list/network/embryonic organisation to sort itself out"
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mark Burton
>> Sent: 21 January 2009 12:25
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] petition/ from community psychologists?
>>
>> You are absolutely right.
>>
>> Anyway as there were not the 50% objections by the deadline Paul and I sent the statement out to national press, psychological organisations, relevant NGOs working on mental health and similar in Palestine, some 'radical psychologist' colleagues.  Will forward the full list later as I don't have it to hand here.  We sent the version with the changed penultimate sentence to make it clear that it is the Israeli State thatis culpable (just as the Cubans always make it clar that they have no argument with the US people - just their imperialist governments).
>> No the Statement wasn't ideal and it would have been good to have a bit more focus on the psychological dimensions of suffering and its creation - but the priority was action - action that is one more drip in the torrent of voices against this ethnocidal campaign.  To paraphrase Paulo Freire, Had we remained silent we would have remained complict.
>>
>> If the process was less than transparent and democratic that should spur the list/network/embryonic organisation to sort itself out.
>>
>>
>>   
>>> Yes David,
>>>
>>> There are many petitions. The one that you indicate is so that 
>>> scientists and academics show their solidarity with the people of 
>>> Gaza, and the disapproval of the Israeli Governments actions.
>>> What many people seem to be seeking on this list is a show of 
>>> solidarity from our profession. A petition from our profession would 
>>> allow those of us who believe that our profession should speak out 
>>> collectively as a voice for social change, and to acknowledge that not 
>>> all mental health is neurological ,but environmental or social in its onset, can do so.
>>> It seems that collective announcements from this list, as a voice for 
>>> Community Psychologists acknowledging that the actions of a state are 
>>> wilfully creating significant psychological problems ( not to mention 
>>> that the state is responsible for wholesale deaths, homelessness, 
>>> illnesses and injuries which medical practitioners at the site are not 
>>> able to administer to, plus ongoing ill health as a direct result of 
>>> deprivation of food, clean drinking water and medicines) is difficult.
>>>
>>> Maybe we need to go back to the beginning, and state the terms of the 
>>> list. I can get academic debate in all manner of forums. I work with 
>>> people who have been tortured, who have witnessed the violent deaths 
>>> of their loved ones and strangers, I work with children who have been 
>>> tortured, and for whom it takes years to get acknowledgement that they 
>>> must be believed. Even amongst the most vulnerable in the indigenous 
>>> community of the UK, these people are denied everything - a group like 
>>> no other. Some of their suffering comes from the outrageous drive of 
>>> our own Government to silence and dismiss them, to deny them all their 
>>> human rights. A substantial amount of their suffering comes from what 
>>> has happened to them and what they have witnessed. I am not willing to 
>>> be silent about what I see and experience here. I am not willing to 
>>> navigate a discourse about saying outloud: "I object!"
>>>
>>> As a psychotherapist for social change, as a psychotherapist who has 
>>> status and whose voice might count in some small way I am saying "I 
>>> see, I hear, and I object,"
>>> As the blogger from the International Solidarity Movement said from 
>>> Gaza during the bombing, someone who chose to witness, the people need 
>>> to know that we object.
>>> Miriam
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:53:35 +0000From: [log in to unmask] Dear 
>>> Miriam and all
>>>
>>> You asked whether reformulating the draft statement as a petition was 
>>> possible. Here is a link to an existing petition you and others might 
>>> like to know about if you don't already.
>>>
>>> http://www.petitiononline.com/I75SD92/petition.html
>>> David
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Imagine a life without walls.  See the possibilities 
>>> http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/122465943/direct/01/
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>>>     
>>
>> ___________________________________
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>> To unsubscribe or to change your details visit the website:
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>>   
> ___________________________________ COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion 
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Department of Human Sciences
Loughborough University
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Email: [log in to unmask]
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To unsubscribe or to change your details visit the website:
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