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CCP4BB  January 2009

CCP4BB January 2009

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Subject:

Re: structure (factor) amplitude

From:

Dirk Kostrewa <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Dirk Kostrewa <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 12 Jan 2009 12:18:46 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

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text/plain (211 lines)

Dear Ian,

many thanks for this clarification - I have to think about this,  
though ;-)

Best regards,

Dirk.

Am 12.01.2009 um 12:09 schrieb Ian Tickle:

> I think there's a confusion here between the name of an object (what  
> you
> call it) and its description (i.e. its properties).  The name of the
> object is "structure amplitude" and it's description is "amplitude of
> the structure factor", or if you prefer the shortened form "structure
> factor amplitude".  This distinction was of course carried to  
> absurdity
> in "Alice through the Looking Glass":
>
> "It's long." said the Knight, "but it's very, very beautiful.  
> Everybody
> that hears me sing it - either it brings tears to their eyes, or  
> else -"
> "Or else what?" said Alice, for the Knight had made a sudden pause.
> "Or else it doesn't, you know. The name of the song is called  
> 'Haddocks'
> Eyes.'"
> "Oh, that's the name of the song, is it?" Alice said, trying to feel
> interested.
> "No, you don't understand," the Knight said, looking a little vexed.
> "That's what the name is called. The name really is 'The Aged, Aged
> Man.'"
> "Then I ought to have said 'That's what the song is called'?" Alice
> corrected herself.
> "No you oughtn't: that's another thing. The song is called 'Ways and
> Means' but that's only what it's called, you know!"
> "Well, what is the song then?" said Alice, who was by this time
> completely bewildered.
> "I was coming to that," the Knight said. "The song really is 'A- 
> sitting
> On a Gate': and the tune's my own invention."
>
> Cheers
>
> -- Ian
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [log in to unmask]
>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dirk Kostrewa
>> Sent: 12 January 2009 10:52
>> To: CCP4BB
>> Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] structure (factor) amplitude
>>
>> ... despite these informations, I still prefer "structure factor
>> amplitude", because it is the amplitude of the "structure factor" ...
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Dirk.
>>
>> Am 12.01.2009 um 11:42 schrieb Ian Tickle:
>>
>>> I was taught 'structure amplitude' - makes perfect sense to me!  Why
>>> does 'structure amplitude' make any less sense than 'structure
>>> factor'?
>>>
>>> It also clearly made sense to Phil Coppens, a crystallographer of
>>> considerable repute, see ITC Vol. B (2nd Ed.), sect 1.2., p.10: 'The
>>> Structure Factor'.  To quote the introduction to the section: "The
>>> 'structure factor' is the central concept in structure analysis by
>>> diffraction methods.  Its modulus is called the 'structure
>>> amplitude'".
>>>
>>> Also I did a 'Google vote' for the two terms.  'Structure
>> amplitude'
>>> has
>>> 11300 hits.  'Structure factor amplitude' has only 4750.  So all
>>> round I
>>> would say that 'structure amplitude' wins by a considerable margin.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> -- Ian
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: [log in to unmask]
>>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Pavel Afonine
>>>> Sent: 11 January 2009 03:01
>>>> To: Ethan A Merritt
>>>> Cc: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] structure (factor) amplitude
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 1/10/2009 5:14 PM, Ethan A Merritt wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 	On Saturday 10 January 2009, Bernhard Rupp wrote:
>>>> 	
>>>>
>>>> 		Dear All,
>>>> 		
>>>> 		I am getting conflicting comments on the use of
>>>> 		'structure factor amplitude'
>>>> 		vs. just
>>>> 		'structure amplitude'
>>>> 		for |F|.
>>>> 		
>>>>
>>>> 	
>>>> 	???
>>>> 	That's just... odd.
>>>> 	
>>>> 	|F| is the amplitude of F.
>>>> 	But no way F is a "structure".
>>>> 	
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I agree. If F is a structure factor then |F| is a structure
>>>> factor amplitude. "structure amplitude" doesn't make much sense...
>>>> Pavel.
>>>
>>>
>>> Disclaimer
>>> This communication is confidential and may contain privileged
>>> information intended solely for the named addressee(s). It may not
>>> be used or disclosed except for the purpose for which it has been
>>> sent. If you are not the intended recipient you must not review,
>>> use, disclose, copy, distribute or take any action in
>> reliance upon
>>> it. If you have received this communication in error,
>> please notify
>>> Astex Therapeutics Ltd by emailing [log in to unmask]
>>> and destroy all copies of the message and any attached documents.
>>> Astex Therapeutics Ltd monitors, controls and protects all its
>>> messaging traffic in compliance with its corporate email
>> policy. The
>>> Company accepts no liability or responsibility for any onward
>>> transmission or use of emails and attachments having left
>> the Astex
>>> Therapeutics domain.  Unless expressly stated, opinions in this
>>> message are those of the individual sender and not of Astex
>>> Therapeutics Ltd. The recipient should check this email and any
>>> attachments for the presence of computer viruses. Astex
>> Therapeutics
>>> Ltd accepts no liability for damage caused by any virus
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>>> Therapeutics Ltd only send and receive e-mails on the basis
>> that the
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>>> Astex Therapeutics Ltd., Registered in England at 436 Cambridge
>>> Science Park, Cambridge CB4 0QA under number 3751674
>>
>>
>> *******************************************************
>> Dirk Kostrewa
>> Gene Center, A 5.07
>> Ludwig-Maximilians-University
>> Feodor-Lynen-Str. 25
>> 81377 Munich
>> Germany
>> Phone: 	+49-89-2180-76845
>> Fax: 	+49-89-2180-76999
>> E-mail:	[log in to unmask]
>> *******************************************************
>>
>>
>
>
> Disclaimer
> This communication is confidential and may contain privileged  
> information intended solely for the named addressee(s). It may not  
> be used or disclosed except for the purpose for which it has been  
> sent. If you are not the intended recipient you must not review,  
> use, disclose, copy, distribute or take any action in reliance upon  
> it. If you have received this communication in error, please notify  
> Astex Therapeutics Ltd by emailing [log in to unmask]  
> and destroy all copies of the message and any attached documents.
> Astex Therapeutics Ltd monitors, controls and protects all its  
> messaging traffic in compliance with its corporate email policy. The  
> Company accepts no liability or responsibility for any onward  
> transmission or use of emails and attachments having left the Astex  
> Therapeutics domain.  Unless expressly stated, opinions in this  
> message are those of the individual sender and not of Astex  
> Therapeutics Ltd. The recipient should check this email and any  
> attachments for the presence of computer viruses. Astex Therapeutics  
> Ltd accepts no liability for damage caused by any virus transmitted  
> by this email. E-mail is susceptible to data corruption,  
> interception, unauthorized amendment, and tampering, Astex  
> Therapeutics Ltd only send and receive e-mails on the basis that the  
> Company is not liable for any such alteration or any consequences  
> thereof.
> Astex Therapeutics Ltd., Registered in England at 436 Cambridge  
> Science Park, Cambridge CB4 0QA under number 3751674


*******************************************************
Dirk Kostrewa
Gene Center, A 5.07
Ludwig-Maximilians-University
Feodor-Lynen-Str. 25
81377 Munich
Germany
Phone: 	+49-89-2180-76845
Fax: 	+49-89-2180-76999
E-mail:	[log in to unmask]
*******************************************************

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