Lita, Mogg & All,

This mind-body duality thread ties back into the recent threads about
subjectivity-objectivity in Academia. What I came away with from those
discussions is that, among academics, there are indeed many differing views
on where Academia stands regarding objectivity and subjectivity.

So there is no one acceptable academic stance regarding the subject-object
"duality," nor the
mind-body "duality." And that means: there is no one acceptable academic
genre/worldview to write from, even within a discipline.

Lita, if you've deleted December's posts, you might want to skim back
through the subject-object thread since they inform the mind-body duality
issues---via Dave's archives accessible to list members. It began around
12/12 with the "Theatre and Magic(k)" thread, and wove itself into the
"Dawkins" and "Rational Claims in Scientific/Academic Fields."

I continually appreciate that this listserv interests seasoned
practitioners---thanks for the wink Khem:)

Kathryn LaFevers Evans
Independent Scholar
Chickasaw Nation


----- Original Message -----
From: "mandrake" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Mind & Body


> Lita
>
> Thank you - interesting perspective -
> I guess the ultimate answer to the question -
> which is a v old one - is mystical speculation
> and as such is part of the object of magical religion?
>
> I think some of the eastern ontologies have interesting things to say
> about this - although often excluded from the academy* -
> which thinks it has refuted Descartes and his challenging version of the
> ancient Dualist philosophy.
> I wonder if the Deleuzian thing references some Hindu Dualist philosophy
> where "decoupling" is theorized but the
> spiritual entity that "returns to the source" takes a subtle part ofthe
> body along - thus the concept of the "Jiva" -
> which has all the "modal" (molecular?) aspects of consciousness (the
> senses etc) apart from "earth"?
>
> "Love and do what you will"
>
> Mogg
>
> * Anthony Flew once wrote that there was no rational thought east of Suez.
>
>
>
>
> Crociani-Windland wrote:
> >
> > Happy New Year folks,
> >
> > I am really interested in the mind-body thread and it has moved me to
> > de-lurking.
> >
> > Without claiming to a particularly informed view on this I wonder if
> > whether the difficulty in thinking about this issue is how we
> > conceptualise the boundary between spiritual and material reality.  I
> > agree with Mogg that from an observable and logical perspective a
> > level of decoupling is evident, but is it a decoupling from all kinds
> > and levels of physical substance or could we think of it as at a far
> > more subtle level, molecular to use Deleuzian terms?  In this sense we
> > would have to think of the body as less boundaried and connectivity
> > and modulation as the fundamental aspects that allow such practices
> > and events.  In this sense there is no separation of tool and body,
> > body and world, just more or less permeable spheres of influence and
> > influencing.
> >
> > Maybe this has already been touched on, but I had to delete a load of
> > e-mails recently because of system overload...
> >
> > Lita
> >
> >
> > Dr. Lita Crociani-Windland
> > Faculty of Social Sciences and Humanities,
> > University of the West of England,
> > Bristol BS16 1QY
> > E-mail: [log in to unmask]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic on behalf of mandrake
> > Sent: Thu 01/01/2009 09:56
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Mind & Body
> >
> > steve ash et al
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > "My problem with that is it implies we are separate from our bodies, a
> > kind of alienation, a tool is usually seen as an extension to 'us',
> > but in this case we actually are our bodies. We may or may not be more
> > than our physical bodies, but we remain as our physical body, rather
> > than having a vehicle or a tool, don't we?"
> >
> >
> > re:
> > Well that's the question - opinions vary as we know : )
> > An important thread within magick is surely that there is some
> > separation between mind and body -
> > and that the mind, soul, atman (whatever you want to call it) is a
> > spiritual substance that can return to the source etc.
> > I'm not sure how Pagan theology/cosmology etc can work otherwise and all
> > the techniques of "astral projection"; "path working", "dream
> > incubation" etc etc.
> >
> > But even if these questions don't both you - from a purely naturalistic
> > perspective - we can do things with our bodies and we can do things that
> > are more mentalistic -
> > thus we can practice yoga (physical postures) on the basis that they
> > have a special impact on thinking (they calm the mind etc) .
> > There are probable other examples of physical practices that can have
> > some sort of gnostic effect -
> > so-called "sexual magick" for example - or "Tantra"
> >  isn't that about using the physical as a tool to liberate the mental??
> >
> >  From memory I think the Marcel Maus article is called "Techniques of
> > the Body" -
> > (I had terrible trouble finding this as a undergrad - asking libraries
> > for books by M Mouse - you can imagine)
> >
> > bb/93
> >
> > Mogg
> >
> > PS: As to Tarot another possible origin for Tarot images is the
> > Renaissance carnival
> > (see J Burckhardt "Civilization of the Renaissance in Italy") - Don't
> > know the Parsival myth enough to say whether it is crucial -
> > according to Wiccan tradition the Tarot represents the journey of Horus
> > - from "Fool" (disenfranchised) to "Kingship".
> >
> >
> > > --- On Thu, 1/1/09, ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC automatic digest system
> > <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Re: Bodies as tools
> > >
> > > My problem with that is it implies we are separate from our bodies,
> > a kind of alienation, a tool is usually seen as an extension to 'us',
> > but in this case we actually are our bodies. We may or may not be more
> > than our physical bodies, but we remain as our physical body, rather
> > than having a vehicle or a tool, don't we?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > This incoming email to UWE has been independently scanned for viruses
> > by McAfee anti-virus software and none were detected
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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