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JISC-SHIBBOLETH  December 2008

JISC-SHIBBOLETH December 2008

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Subject:

Re: LA (Re: JISC OpenID Report)

From:

Brian Gilmore <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Discussion list for Shibboleth developments <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:52:01 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

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-- 
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.


-----Original Message-----
From: Discussion list for Shibboleth developments [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David Orrell
Sent: 10 December 2008 17:37
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: LA (Re: JISC OpenID Report)


On 10 Dec 2008, at 16:46, Fiona Culloch wrote:
>
> Andy Powell replied:
>
>> Thinking creatively around delegation might also leave you with a
>> significant chunk of the "user-centric" value in place?
>
> I don't see how user-centricity is divisible: either I can in extremis
> set up my own OpenID Provider and still be an equal player in the  
> game,
> or I can't.
>
>> And simplifying "discovery" removes one of the major usability  
>> hurdles
>> in current systems.  Granted, it replaces it with a different one (at
>> least)... the whole, "whaddaya mean my user-id is a uri?" type issue,
>
> Leaving aside the problems with URLs as usernames etc., OpenID would
> only remove that hurdle if it was used exclusively "instead-of"  
> current
> systems.  However, if you are interested in crossover, it seems more
> likely that both would end up being used "as well as", so discovery
> wouldn't go away.

Not necessarily. You could adopt a model whereby OpenID is used more  
as a pointer to a trusted identity/claims provider. You use OpenID to  
assert your personal 'presence', preferences etc, and a trusted  
provider to make claims about a particular affiliation you may have.

Hence, OpenID is saying 'this is me and these are my interests/ 
preferences. I also have an affiliation with organisation X'. Assuming  
the RP has a trust relationship with organisation X, they now know  
where to go to get assurance over the (informal) claim the user has  
made. If user subsequently moves to organisation Y then they simply  
update their OP with their new affiliation. From the RP's perspective,  
the 'this is me' part remains the same. This simplifies IdP discovery  
on the back of OpenID, while maintaining user-centricness and a  
potential long-term identifier. In fact you could say it's a similar  
or more generalised case of Andy's 'creative delegation'.

Now, clearly there's problems here (extra RP complexity, OpenID  
providers supporting such claims, SSO between the OP and trusted  
claims provider). Combining George's suggestion of using OpenID to  
authenticate to a trusted IdP may help with the latter.

David

Surely the basic problem exists.

If I have a users [log in to unmask]  then I don't really have any trust that the next time I see *that* ID that it is actually the same user.

Hence it still can't be used as part of a chain to deliver a higher value of trust that I would have put in that ID in the first place

Brian Gilmore

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