Let's hear it for Spenser heaven. I'll see you all there!
On Oct 30, 2008, at 2:53 PM, Anne Prescott wrote:
> Lovely, David. It was from you, at a Kalamazoo session, that I first
> learned how to argue against a mere moralistic illustration of the
> virtues rather than a more interesting interrogation, exploration,
> whatever. And now you do chainlines and watermarks and a new
> edition, which will get you saved to Spenser heaven. Anne.
>
> On Oct 30, 2008, at 2:29 PM, David Miller wrote:
>
>> Bill, that's a pretty interesting take on Redcrosse. For me, it
>> makes sense because I think part of his struggle is to transform
>> his faith from a joyless deathwish into an affirmation of life. I
>> see this as present from the beginning, in the ambiguities of "dead
>> as living ever him adored": like Duessa, there's part of RC that
>> images the savior as a corpse and worships his death. And since RC
>> is, for most of the book, named after the bloody cross that serves
>> as an icon of that death, there are strong suggestions that his
>> attachment to the savior is a kind of melancholy incorporation of
>> the crucified body.
>>
>> Broadly speaking, I believe that the most interesting approach to
>> Book I goes straight to its theology, even at an introductory
>> level. Not as static doctrine, but as the language in which early
>> modern Christians thought through issues to which we might give
>> other names, using the terms of psychoanalysis or phenomenology.
>> If you look back at Harry Berger's mid-60s essay on Book I, you see
>> that he thought so, too: he's analyzing the allegory in terms
>> borrowed from Reformation theology.
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>> On Oct 30, 2008, at 2:08 PM, William Oram wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, I think he will be saved, but it's not clear that he's ever
>>> fully peaceful in mind. He despairs (or comes close to it) during
>>> treatment in the House of Holiness, and then he wants to die when
>>> he's made it up the Mount of Contemplation, and wants to die again
>>> when the dragon's breath is heating up his armor, and by the time
>>> we get to the betrothal celebration we've got many minstrels
>>> making melody/ To drive away the dull melancholy. Perhaps that's
>>> supposed to measure the distance he's traveled from the House of
>>> Pride where the lines appear earlier, but I see the repetition as
>>> suggesting that you never get too far from despair while you're in
>>> this life. Bill
>>>
>>>
>>> William Oram
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> 413-585-3322
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> anne prescott <[log in to unmask]> 10/30/08 1:37 PM >>>
>>> As an addendum to my e-mail of a minute ago--Bill's cartoons are
>>> wonderful and the one about the elephant patient is one I will use
>>> next class as an addendum before we start Spenser's love poetry.
>>> Bill
>>> isn't Redcrosse sort of pre-saved? Una tells him he's chosen. I
>>> agree
>>> he never makes it to the New Jerusalem (it isn't time, yet) or
>>> marries
>>> Una (too much work to do). Anne.
>>>
>>> On Oct 29, 2008, at 8:45 PM, William Oram wrote:
>>>
>>>> I spend two weeks on it in our thirteen-week survey course, so
>>>> there's time to do all of Book I. Like Michael and some others I
>>>> spend most of my time showing them how to read allegory, and I
>>>> often
>>>> begin with cartoons as a convention-driven picture-language (I
>>>> used
>>>> to use some wonderful old Herblock cartoons from the sixties with
>>>> the personified bomb, and one, very relevant now, of an elephant
>>>> lying dolefully on a couch staring at the ceiling and speaking to a
>>>> man with a Freudian beard who is taking notes saying "Nobody loves
>>>> me anymore.") But I don't think you can teach the allegory of Book
>>>> I without attention to religion--or to what happens to Redcrosse.
>>>> So I do teach it as concerned with salvation--though he never quite
>>>> gets there. Bill
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> William Oram
>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>> 413-585-3322
>>>>
>>>>>>> Linda Vecchi <[log in to unmask]> 10/29/08 12:12 PM >>>
>>>> When I teach our survey course (at second year, here) I teach Book
>>>> I, although
>>>> time rarely allows for us to read the entire book. I found that by
>>>> focusing on
>>>> Redcrosse, I could devise a reasonably coherent narrative/thematic
>>>> thread and
>>>> have our discussion of FQ connect thematically to the other 'heroic
>>>> tales' we
>>>> had studied during the term (Beowulf, Sir Gawain, Faustus). My
>>>> students seemed
>>>> able to handle the text well. In my senior seminar course I have
>>>> taught Books 1
>>>> and/or 3.
>>>>
>>>> Since our public school system suspended denominantional schools
>>>> (Catholic,
>>>> Protestant and Evangelical) only about 15 years ago, most of my
>>>> students can
>>>> relate to (and some even take umbrage at) the religious context of
>>>> the work.
>>>> In the years closely following 9/11, I also had some heated
>>>> discussions about
>>>> Spenser's (and Elizabethan England's) attitudes toward Muslim/
>>>> Islamic
>>>> characters.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Quoting Marianne F Micros <[log in to unmask]>:
>>>>
>>>>> Sadly, I don't think it is much taught at all. Our first-year
>>>>> course is a
>>>>> 12-week one with little time! I'm wondering how many people drop
>>>>> Spenser. I
>>>>> teach some of the sonnets in the first year but work in books of
>>>>> the FQ
>>>>> (usually 3 or 5) in other courses.
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Jean Goodrich <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>> Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 09:13:57 -0400 (EDT)
>>>>> Subject: Re: Book I in survey courses
>>>>>
>>>>> Besides demonstrating a more sophisticated use of allegory than
>>>>> what
>>>>> students will have seen in *Everyman* or *Second Shepherd's*, I
>>>>> stress
>>>>> Spenser's method of instructing the reader how to read as well
>>>>> as the
>>>>> disconnect between *seeming* and *being*. This allows us to look
>>>>> at
>>>>> Redcrosse as in process of becoming Holiness, and not necessarily
>>>>> there yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've also found an increasing lack of familiarity with the
>>>>> religious
>>>>> background, including things as basic as differences between
>>>>> Catholicism and
>>>>> Protestantism. Students will get the Una/Redcrosse/Archimago
>>>>> confrontation,
>>>>> and love the Seven Deadlies, but they'll completely miss the
>>>>> significance of
>>>>> Abessa/Corceca/Kirkrapine and the repeated occurrences of Pride
>>>>> beyond
>>>>> Lucifera.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jean Goodrich
>>>>> University of Arizona
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 5:48 AM, Michael Saenger
>>>>> <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I spend most of my time on Book I as an exploration of how
>>>>>> allegory works.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Michael
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Quoting James Broaddus <[log in to unmask]>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How is Book I presently discussed in undergraduate survey
>>>>>> courses?
>>>>>> Back
>>>>> in
>>>>>>> my day, of course, it was discussed as the story of a fall and
>>>>>>> consequent
>>>>>>> redemption. Is it still so discussed in those courses?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jim Broaddus
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Retired, Ind. State.Univ.
>>>>>>> 2487 KY 3245
>>>>>>> Brodhead, KY 40409
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dr. Linda Vecchi
>>>> Department of English
>>>> Memorial University of Newfoundland
>>>> St. John's, NL A1C 5S7
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