Thanks, Judy. -- I didn't realize till you said it that AC thought S J Lec's
aphorisms "sexist" --- This is inconceivable. This whole PC style of
rhetoric (I can't call it "thinking") in which one's subjective (and perhaps
tendentious and strained) negative association with a phrase is treated as
a) a real insight into the phrase and its maker, and b) grounds for morally
condemning them - is destructive and contemptible. It resembles nothing so
much as Palin-thought.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Judy Prince" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: 2 poems
> To Alison and Barry, actually, and to Fred and Kasper indirectly: I can't
> for the life of me see sexism [against females] in anything Fred's written
> in these messages in apparent response to Barry's posting of Lauterbach's
> work. If we substitute 'he' for 'she', we come up with an equally
> damning of what Fred thinks is silly, fakey, outmoded, bad poetry and bad
> poetry-reading. Labeling folks as 'sexist' requires careful thought. If
> know that Fred pretty continuously damns female poets and not male poets,
> should think we'd have a possible case against his views, but I simply
> know that that is the case. He, as I can recall, strongly dislikes poetry
> with a certain worldview---whether males' or females' poetry.
> Further on the subject of sexism: If behavior typically associated with
> females is damned, what's wrong with that? I think everything's right
> it. Many of Sarah Palin's behaviors, for example, are very much those
> typically associated with females, and they're rightfully thought
> Where's an argument in any of that? Sexism---against males as well as
> females covers _far_ more serious ground than what you have raised here
> about Fred's 'take' on Lauterbach. It's well for us, all of us, to open
> such a discussion of sexism, as well as racism, so that we can KNOW what
> think and feel. Poets as starters of the discussion?----a fabulous
> beginning to an essential, fundamental, crucial debate.
> And further, If folks disagree with Fred's opinion, let them go ahead and
> give theirs rather than 'red herring' us with 'isms'. If their opinion is
> given as artfully as Fred has given his, then I'm sure it will receive due
> Still further, and for Alison, the cannibal and ventilator quotes that
> Kasper contributed are neither racist nor sexist---though perhaps
> animalist---and they're hilarious.
> 2008/10/7 Frederick Pollack <[log in to unmask]>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alison Croggon" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 8:23 AM
>> Subject: Re: 2 poems
>> You know, the funny thing is that I could let Frederick's obvious
>>> sexism go by without a ruffle (and it's not for me to arbitrate,
>>> anyway) - but Kasper, this is a horrible and utterly racist quotation.
>>> And damn the accusations of PC, which are often just lazy defences of
>>> lazy bigotries.
>> For the record, I absolutely deny sexism, "obvious" or otherwise.
>> Including "sexist" intent in my original phrase "meaty masterpiece."
>> kind of reasoning Barry Alpert showed in a) calling ME sexist because
>> phrase struck HIM as sexist, as well as b) intimating that La Auerbach is
>> beyond attack because she has garnered po-biz and academic honors, is not
>> be tolerated. But the bleating of a herd of PC-liberals is as little
>> susceptible to argument as a swarm of rightists. I will NOT get into an
>> IDIOTIC pseudo-controversy of this sort, which always results in someone
>> leaving the list in a self-righteous huff. I'll just go back to my usual
>> lurking state.