medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
You just reminded me I had seen a facsimile of a papal seal with the
heads of both Peter and Paul. According to this web site, Gregory VII
introduced that form of seal:
www.unigre.it/pubblicazioni/lasala/*Papal*%20*Seals*.pdf
The one I recall was a facsimile of a bull of Innocent III to King John
of England.
Also, bulls threaten those who fail to obey with the wrath of Peter and
Paul:
e.g. from Rashdall:
http://books.google.com/books?id=0O41AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA732&lpg=PA732&dq=nulli+ergo+si+quis+autem&source=web&ots=HH_4xbqgNV&sig=erEhK1wUsKhOuu3BS0mbqPiwrMI&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result
So, Paul did not drop out entirely, though the expression see of Peter
says much about the predominance of the idea of being his successor.
Tom Izbicki
George R. Hoelzeman wrote:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> Right - I seem to recall reading something that supports that. Of course, the whole culture of the era offers a host of reasons both men would wind up in
> Rome (it seems almost inevitable at some level). Having both Peter and Paul die in Rome and being able to lay claim to their relics seems to have been a
> factor in Rome's "primacy" or honored position (as described by the Council of Chalcedon - or was it Ephesus?).
>
> I've always found it curious that Paul seems to have faded into the background by the third century, at least as far as a "player" in Roman primacy and
> (apparently) even pilgrimage. St. Paul Outside the Walls (from what I can tell) is one of the least visited of the four major basilicas and dramatically less
> visited than St. Peter's. When I took a group in 2004 the Roman guide was almost incredulous when I asked that he take us down to St. Paul's.
> Apparently, virtually no one ever asks to go down there and there were maybe two dozen people in the basilica during the time we were there - and 15 of
> those was my group.
>
> I wonder how much the neglect of the idea of the Pope as successor to Peter and Paul has to do with the difficulty of ascribing episcopal characteristics to
> Paul and the fact that Paul's claim to being an Apostle is (or seems to be) different than that of Peter's?
>
> George the Less
>
> On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 14:14:45 +0100, John Briggs wrote:
>
>
>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>>
>
>
>> George R. Hoelzeman wrote:
>>
>>> Something else - I seem to recall that Irenaeus makes Linus, et al,
>>> successors of St. Peter AND St. Paul. . .
>>>
>
>
>> Which may explain why Rome has primacy over Antioch...
>>
>
>
>> John Briggs
>>
>
>
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