Your vision is that Poetry is weak and provisional. Poetry is nothing
of the sort. It has persisted for a millenia or two, and I'm pretty
sure it will persist a damn sight longer. In fact, poetry and painting
have persisted side by side for a long time. Painting (in the modern
sense), if I read Julian Bell correctly, grew from illustration.
Indeed, there are a few poems which use paintings as their source of
inspiration. So the two inform, enrich each other. John Ashberry and
Joe Brainard produce excellent poetry, and it seems they produced
excellent collages. The Mole has just produced an excellent book of
illustrations. Why we can't discuss both is beyond me. It seems they
intersect, burgeon and go forth.
The history of poetryetc stands against you:
Discussions about art history? Yep.
Discussions about music? Yep.
Discussions about Theatre? Yep.
Discussions about Maths? Yep.
Have these displaced the poetry? No. Will painting displace poetry on
this list? No. There are a lot of poets on this list, and poetry is
their main interest, but there are a lot subsidiary interests and I
don't see why they shouldn't be aired. And that's the etc bit. Get
inspiration from, for example. Indeed, of the current threads, I can
see no support for your assertions. Currently there are several
parallel threads, some discussing poetry, some discussing the more
plastic arts. Some discussing brickwork. Yes, I notice that you were
all too eager to discuss brickwork, in this thread, and another on
poetry. Danged if I can see what that has to do with poetry, but I'm
happy to read it, follow the witty and intelligent conservation dive
and thread where it will, gleaning bits of inspiration and information
here and there; watch it reel back in to poetry and out again; marvel
and delight at the witticisms, jokes, nuggets of pure gold. I think we
have a wonderful, unique thing here in poetryetc. If you wish to
tamper with it, so be it. I won't be there for the ride if the list is
closed down to a narrow, tight, airless little box. I had enough of
that on British & Irish Poets, Buffalo Poetics etc with people
shouting that you can't discuss this or that.
Dave, if you don't feel comfortable discussing my art, then please,
don't. Start up your own thread about what interests you. Post some
poetry, and we'll discuss it. You have many wonderful thoughts and
ideas; this isn't one of your better ones.
I am learning to swim and frolic in the waters of three worlds: text,
image and music. At one stage I had spurned poetry altogether and you
encouraged me to write poetry again. Now I know I can't do without
poetry, that it informs me as much as I breath, but I can't deny my
other talents, and the currents that flow between them.
On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 7:21 AM, David Bircumshaw
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> I'm trying very hard to articulate something that resembles a thought
> here: poetry, pace Darwish, doesn't change life, but it adds an extra
> dimension. However that space it creates doesn't alter that which is
> not that space, so something different, something extra, gets added,
> but the old problems still stay the same. At the same time, it is a
> provisional, vulnerable, largely intangible thing, and it is very easy
> to fall for the temptation of a more physical substitute to inhabit
> the same space.
> I don't know if I'm making myself clear or making sense, this is just
> an attempt at speaking, I'll leave it at this for now.
> 2008/8/28 Roger Day <[log in to unmask]>:
>> Pace our moderators attempts to limit the discussion to poetry and
>> only poetry, the title of the list has always been "poetryetc". See
>> that little etc at the end there? So, although poetry may not be
>> discussed in a way you like, I wasn't under the impression that poetry
>> was avoided. From my POV, most of the conversation centers around
>> poetry, looping, elliptical maybe, but still going around and around.
>> Maybe it's my vision of the list that differs from yours. There are
>> plenty of lists which concentrate *solely* on Poetry - new-poetry,
>> british and irish poets etc etc. The uniqueness of this list is that
>> it could cover everything, and does sometimes, but the center holding
>> is poetry. I've not seen many people posting snaps recently and that's
>> always been a major feature of these lists. Indeed, you've contributed
>> poetry and it's been discussed, so I hardly see how that's avoiding
>> There's nothing to stop you from discussing villanelles if that's what
>> you want. And I was under the impression that was what you were doing
>> so with Alison. For me, the world, for me, does not spin on a poetic
>> axis alone, and the broad wash of genres should mix and collide. No
>> boundaries. I realise I'm probably the main culprit here, so hey, if
>> you want me kicked off, complain to the moderators. I'm sure they'd be
>> happy to oblige, pace their attempts to fit this list into a neat
>> little box.
>> On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 8:53 PM, David Bircumshaw
>> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>> It's fascinating to be on a poetry discussion list where the main
>>> thing that is avoided in conversation is poetry.
>>> 2008/8/27 Stephen Vincent <[log in to unmask]>:
>>>> Agree with Doug, here, Roger. I like the sense of texture in these pieces.
>>>> The work does not seem much about 'self' in that narcisstic way, so I don't reason to be concerned about put your stuff out into the world. I see these things as kinds of gifts - not that you want them to be free of critique (another kind of reciprocal gift, if well given).
>>>> I mean you are not confusing your 'self' with Paris Hilton - I suspect!
>>>> Stephen V
>>>> Douglas Barbour <[log in to unmask]> wrote: And definitely something there to promote, Roger. I especially like
>>>> the abstracts & the merz stuff....
>>>> On 26-Aug-08, at 1:33 PM, Roger Day wrote:
>>>>> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
>>>>> "I began to warm and chill
>>>>> to objects and their fields"
>>>>> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds
>>>> Douglas Barbour
>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>> Latest books:
>>>> Continuations (with Sheila E Murphy)
>>>> A little planet blues, for the
>>>> A season of rictus riffs.
>>>> Dennis Lee
>>> David Bircumshaw
>>> Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
>>> The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
>>> Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
>> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
>> "I began to warm and chill
>> to objects and their fields"
>> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds
> David Bircumshaw
> Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
> The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
> Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
"I began to warm and chill
to objects and their fields"
Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds