This is a something I wrote some years ago for 'Angel Exhaust' and for
my late mate Brian who was also a terrible neo-formalist. It tickled
him:
Seven Attempted Angels
(for Brian Fewster)
Evasion at Birth
Faints oh white on the white out blacks out
innocent on snow as new born see?
Party going
Breathless hustle in the they sweaty chill
silent is speaking: draught not like me?
Difficulties on arrival
Only a +glassalike+ a border of ideas
where bodies shatter unstained the clear.
Aiutate miei
So what's it's good for people always snap
too much to lift scalpel eyelid prayer.
Belov'd cherub
Two kissy suck suck wet smacky stick
dream bones grind down sweat slide cold!
Senex waltz
Too slow played at played out so ready
as guardians wander the children old.
The far side
Place in an envelope post in the blue
nowhere the mist is shaping like you ...
Best
Dave
2008/8/29 David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>:
>>John Ashberry and Joe Brainard produce excellent poetry, and it seems they produced
> excellent collages.<
>
> well it seems there is a rather a problem discussing JA's collages as
> they can't be seen.
>
> You are quite right to say that my view of poetry is provisional, but
> 'weak', no, it's nothing of the sort. Poetry, within its own sphere,
> is immensely potent, but it is easily brushed aside by more tangible
> objects outside that sphere.
>
> I haven't said anything about your art-work btw because I haven't
> anything useful to say about it, that's not a criticism just a
> statement of fact.
>
> 2008/8/29 Roger Day <[log in to unmask]>:
>> Your vision is that Poetry is weak and provisional. Poetry is nothing
>> of the sort. It has persisted for a millenia or two, and I'm pretty
>> sure it will persist a damn sight longer. In fact, poetry and painting
>> have persisted side by side for a long time. Painting (in the modern
>> sense), if I read Julian Bell correctly, grew from illustration.
>> Indeed, there are a few poems which use paintings as their source of
>> inspiration. So the two inform, enrich each other. John Ashberry and
>> Joe Brainard produce excellent poetry, and it seems they produced
>> excellent collages. The Mole has just produced an excellent book of
>> illustrations. Why we can't discuss both is beyond me. It seems they
>> intersect, burgeon and go forth.
>>
>> The history of poetryetc stands against you:
>>
>> Discussions about art history? Yep.
>> Discussions about music? Yep.
>> Discussions about Theatre? Yep.
>> Discussions about Maths? Yep.
>>
>> Have these displaced the poetry? No. Will painting displace poetry on
>> this list? No. There are a lot of poets on this list, and poetry is
>> their main interest, but there are a lot subsidiary interests and I
>> don't see why they shouldn't be aired. And that's the etc bit. Get
>> inspiration from, for example. Indeed, of the current threads, I can
>> see no support for your assertions. Currently there are several
>> parallel threads, some discussing poetry, some discussing the more
>> plastic arts. Some discussing brickwork. Yes, I notice that you were
>> all too eager to discuss brickwork, in this thread, and another on
>> poetry. Danged if I can see what that has to do with poetry, but I'm
>> happy to read it, follow the witty and intelligent conservation dive
>> and thread where it will, gleaning bits of inspiration and information
>> here and there; watch it reel back in to poetry and out again; marvel
>> and delight at the witticisms, jokes, nuggets of pure gold. I think we
>> have a wonderful, unique thing here in poetryetc. If you wish to
>> tamper with it, so be it. I won't be there for the ride if the list is
>> closed down to a narrow, tight, airless little box. I had enough of
>> that on British & Irish Poets, Buffalo Poetics etc with people
>> shouting that you can't discuss this or that.
>>
>> Dave, if you don't feel comfortable discussing my art, then please,
>> don't. Start up your own thread about what interests you. Post some
>> poetry, and we'll discuss it. You have many wonderful thoughts and
>> ideas; this isn't one of your better ones.
>>
>> I am learning to swim and frolic in the waters of three worlds: text,
>> image and music. At one stage I had spurned poetry altogether and you
>> encouraged me to write poetry again. Now I know I can't do without
>> poetry, that it informs me as much as I breath, but I can't deny my
>> other talents, and the currents that flow between them.
>>
>> Roger
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 7:21 AM, David Bircumshaw
>> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>> I'm trying very hard to articulate something that resembles a thought
>>> here: poetry, pace Darwish, doesn't change life, but it adds an extra
>>> dimension. However that space it creates doesn't alter that which is
>>> not that space, so something different, something extra, gets added,
>>> but the old problems still stay the same. At the same time, it is a
>>> provisional, vulnerable, largely intangible thing, and it is very easy
>>> to fall for the temptation of a more physical substitute to inhabit
>>> the same space.
>>>
>>> I don't know if I'm making myself clear or making sense, this is just
>>> an attempt at speaking, I'll leave it at this for now.
>>>
>>> Best
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> 2008/8/28 Roger Day <[log in to unmask]>:
>>>> Pace our moderators attempts to limit the discussion to poetry and
>>>> only poetry, the title of the list has always been "poetryetc". See
>>>> that little etc at the end there? So, although poetry may not be
>>>> discussed in a way you like, I wasn't under the impression that poetry
>>>> was avoided. From my POV, most of the conversation centers around
>>>> poetry, looping, elliptical maybe, but still going around and around.
>>>> Maybe it's my vision of the list that differs from yours. There are
>>>> plenty of lists which concentrate *solely* on Poetry - new-poetry,
>>>> british and irish poets etc etc. The uniqueness of this list is that
>>>> it could cover everything, and does sometimes, but the center holding
>>>> is poetry. I've not seen many people posting snaps recently and that's
>>>> always been a major feature of these lists. Indeed, you've contributed
>>>> poetry and it's been discussed, so I hardly see how that's avoiding
>>>> poetry.
>>>>
>>>> There's nothing to stop you from discussing villanelles if that's what
>>>> you want. And I was under the impression that was what you were doing
>>>> so with Alison. For me, the world, for me, does not spin on a poetic
>>>> axis alone, and the broad wash of genres should mix and collide. No
>>>> boundaries. I realise I'm probably the main culprit here, so hey, if
>>>> you want me kicked off, complain to the moderators. I'm sure they'd be
>>>> happy to oblige, pace their attempts to fit this list into a neat
>>>> little box.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Roger
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 8:53 PM, David Bircumshaw
>>>> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>> It's fascinating to be on a poetry discussion list where the main
>>>>> thing that is avoided in conversation is poetry.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2008/8/27 Stephen Vincent <[log in to unmask]>:
>>>>>> Agree with Doug, here, Roger. I like the sense of texture in these pieces.
>>>>>> The work does not seem much about 'self' in that narcisstic way, so I don't reason to be concerned about put your stuff out into the world. I see these things as kinds of gifts - not that you want them to be free of critique (another kind of reciprocal gift, if well given).
>>>>>> I mean you are not confusing your 'self' with Paris Hilton - I suspect!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stephen V
>>>>>> http://stephenvincent.net/blog/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Douglas Barbour <[log in to unmask]> wrote: And definitely something there to promote, Roger. I especially like
>>>>>> the abstracts & the merz stuff....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Doug
>>>>>> On 26-Aug-08, at 1:33 PM, Roger Day wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://picasaweb.google.com/rog3r.day/Portfolio2008
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
>>>>>>> "I began to warm and chill
>>>>>>> to objects and their fields"
>>>>>>> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Douglas Barbour
>>>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.ualberta.ca/~dbarbour/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Latest books:
>>>>>> Continuations (with Sheila E Murphy)
>>>>>> http://www.uap.ualberta.ca/UAP.asp?LID=41&bookID=664
>>>>>> Wednesdays'
>>>>>> http://abovegroundpress.blogspot.com/2008/03/new-from-aboveground-press_10.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A little planet blues, for the
>>>>>> deathwatch.
>>>>>> A season of rictus riffs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dennis Lee
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> David Bircumshaw
>>>>> Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
>>>>> The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
>>>>> Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
>>>> "I began to warm and chill
>>>> to objects and their fields"
>>>> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> David Bircumshaw
>>> Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
>>> The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
>>> Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
>> "I began to warm and chill
>> to objects and their fields"
>> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds
>>
>
>
>
> --
> David Bircumshaw
> Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
> The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
> Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
>
--
David Bircumshaw
Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
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