those repetitions can do my head in too, Alison. The reason I picked
up on the subject was that I felt you were underselling yourself,
that's all, so to speak!

Melb I think is a place of great beauty and ugliness: when I was over
there I thought Ruby's Red Rooms in Belgrave was like paradise on
earth, an experience only equaled to me by Much Wenlock in Shropshire
and certain parts of central Madrid. There you are, that's my
perspective: there was also a very shiny bit of light in a place on
the sea inlet side where a husband and wife team of writers lived.

I think I know what you're on about in the matter of that huge place,
Melb, being small, believe me, Leicester is not only physically but
also psychologically even tinier, spiritual and emotional
claustrophobia threaten one all the time.

All the Best

Dave

2008/8/28 Alison Croggon <[log in to unmask]>:
> It's not my pun, but the composer's, Andree Greenwell. Yes, the
> villanelle is easy enough, like any of those multiple rhyming forms,
> to make into light verse; but to make it work as a poem is another
> prospect altogether. Like I said, any of those poems that depend on
> repetitions of lines are (for me, anyway) extremely difficult; I wrote
> a pantoum once (which I think you published, David) and it nearly
> drove me crazy. The repetitions in a pantoum are even less forgiving
> than a villanelle; what's difficult in both is making the meaning turn
> through all the changes, so the lines are continually alive.
>
> Compared to a city of 7 or 8 million, like London or New York,
> Melbourne is small. Compared to Berlin or Bern, yes, it's big. I think
> geographically speaking its suburban sprawl means it's one of the
> biggest cities in the world. Unless I have to travel to Lilydale, it
> often feels quite small to me. Sometimes even then... Still, I'm a bit
> of Melbourne loyalist; it's a lovely place to live, and quite
> interesting.
>
> All best
>
> Alison
>
> On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 10:49 PM, David Bircumshaw
> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> PS Ms C
>>
>> you've written sonnets in the past, and rather good ones too, now if
>> you can crack the sonnet the villanelle's easy.
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> (PS too to everyone this list: I've been helping my deceased friend
>> Brian's partner clear out his flat in the last few days: it puts one
>> in rather a mood. I hope I'm not being too bumptious)
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>> 2008/8/27 Alison Croggon <[log in to unmask]>:
>>> Whatever you think of Diana (and I'm one of those who think there's
>>> not much to think per se) she was the most photographed woman in the
>>> world ever. There is no such thing as Diana (publicity apart).
>>>
>>> I have never been able to write a successful villanelle. I think they
>>> are VERY difficult. As are all those charming forms that depend on
>>> repetiton. But that's me.
>>>
>>> A
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 7:15 PM, David Bircumshaw
>>> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>> Alison, against my better judgement, since when has Melbourne been 'a
>>>> small city? since when too has the villanelle been a 'difficult' art
>>>> form (they're piss-easy, excuse my French) or has the late and
>>>> lamentable Princess Diana (publicity apart) been a significant woman?
>>>> I like what you said about estrangement from some of your own poems,
>>>> it is a weird experience, one has to negotiate that, and then shake
>>>> one's own hand, as it were.
>>>>
>>>> 2008/8/26 Alison Croggon <[log in to unmask]>:
>>>>> but for reasons that are made clear, I'd feel bad if I didn't; I wrote
>>>>> a short report about Andree Greenwell's show The Villainelles, which
>>>>> is a series of songs with lyrics from poems - a couple by me and
>>>>> Kathleen Mary Fallon, the bulk by Jordie Albiston. At
>>>>> http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com/2008/08/divertissement.html
>>>>>
>>>>> All best
>>>>>
>>>>> Alison
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au
>>>>> Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com
>>>>> Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> David Bircumshaw
>>>> Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
>>>> The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
>>>> Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au
>>> Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com
>>> Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> David Bircumshaw
>> Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
>> The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
>> Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au
> Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com
> Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com
>



-- 
David Bircumshaw
Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk