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POETRYETC  August 2008

POETRYETC August 2008

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Subject:

Re: composing on horseback

From:

Judy Prince <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Poetryetc: poetry and poetics

Date:

Tue, 26 Aug 2008 09:05:19 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (205 lines)

HA!  I, too, don't care if Philip Sidney wrote on horseback---or the horse's
back, in fact.  And I, like Birk, have huge reservations about the truth of
much (and who can know "which much"?) that John Aubrey wrote.
What I do find fascinating on this list (the only one outside of Shaksper
and NP that I read, the folks on petc especially talented and _expressive_ )
is the hoo-ha about Class, which seems for many, including you, R'Owl, to
equal Crass.

Hatred of the Wealthies is as virulent in the States (USA).  We haven't the
titles and nobility, but we're keenly aware of who has $$$$$$$ and who
doesn't.  Most of us can get quite worked up about Them vs Us.  Yet most of
us would trade our lives for theirs in a heartbeat.  Further, and most
important:  We feel, to a certain extent, that many of Them have some innate
talents that we don't have.  That's after we've gone through the whole "It's
a political-industrial-military game rigged against Us" and the whole "Money
begets money" and the "Take all their money away and see how bright they
are".  Might just be a self-hatred thing We have; I don't know.

Comes down to this in regard to poetry (only one area of power and art):
 Wealth (or Nobility, for those countries having titled folk) has nothing to
do with talent.  And you know it.

Potter around with the equations of :  "Unwealthy folk are more 'driven' to
write, to create (for money?  writing poetry?  R U kidding?)" and its
opposite, "Wealthy folk have the TIME to write!" as well as the
ultra-bottomline, "THEIR poetry's immediately channelled into the Most
Important publications; we don't have a chance."

Since there's always been a global glut of poets that has increased with the
increase of literate and middle classes, we're looking at far more unwealthy
poets than poets who happen to be wealthy.

That's pretty stiff competition for the Wealthies (if we imagine that
competitions' judges and poetry magazine editors choose the work they prefer
and not the work of wealthy folk they want to please).  Factor in genuine
inclusiveness (as opposed to ignorant or self-deluded "inclusiveness", at
best), and we have a further-stretched bag of poets.  So if we find what we
think is Excellent poetry, it's probably written by an unwealthy person.
 Does that make us feel better?  No.  The only thing that would make us feel
better is if OUR OWN POETRY were well-published.  <g>

For those of you who may think Shakespeare a fine poet:  Would you still
think the poetry as fine if it had come from the pen of a Wealthy or Titled
person?

[A related matter:  You've said, R'Owl, that Shakespeare's works should be
put on the back burner in order to leave funds and venues for showcasing
other playwrights.  I sympathise with your view, but feel that both _can_ be
showcased---to the benefit of audiences and playwrights.]

Judy

2008/8/26 Roger Day <[log in to unmask]>

> I don't really care if Sidney wrote on horseback or not, but Sidney
> *was* rich. Very.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Sidney
>
> So paper, or vellum, or whatever the heck he used was probably very
> affordable to Sidney. He probably scribbled on stuff left over from
> writing Treaties.
>
> Sidney: courtier, statesman, poet. Not someone I can find much empathy
> with; reading his potted biog reminds me of meeting my ex-wife's
> godmother, a woman who lived in a fake pile, and who ran hunting
> parties, and was friends with John Major. Yeah, we both spoke English
> - but beyond that I could get no connection. We belonged it seemed to
> two different Englands.
>
> Maybe you  can shed some light on the group, Areopagus, Dave? That
> "humanist endeavour" interests me.
>
> Roger
>
> On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 8:24 AM, David Bircumshaw
> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > I suspect so too, Sally, paper was +expensive+, even if you were rich.
> >
> > 2008/8/26 Sally Evans <[log in to unmask]>:
> >> I think it s quite likely they meant composing in the head. they didnt
> have
> >> much paper to  waste.
> >> Sally
> >> Sally Evans
> >> http://www.poetryscotland.co.uk
> >> http://groups.msn.com/desktopsallye
> >> http://www.myspace.com/poetsallyevans
> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alison Croggon" <
> [log in to unmask]>
> >> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 5:52 AM
> >> Subject: Re: composing on horseback
> >>
> >>
> >>> It's the actual physical writing on horseback I can't get my head
> >>> around. He must have had a horse with the temperament of a table.
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 11:47 AM, Sally Evans
> >>> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I find composing on horseback very credible because I often compose
> while
> >>>> driving. Of course you cant write anything down until you stop!
> >>>> Sally Evans
> >>>> http://www.poetryscotland.co.uk
> >>>> http://groups.msn.com/desktopsallye
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy Prince"
> >>>> <[log in to unmask]>
> >>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 2:06 AM
> >>>> Subject: Re: composing on horseback
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Sorry, all; I forgot to credit the source I've just quoted.  It's
> John
> >>>>> Aubrey [1626-1697], _The Natural History of Wiltshire_, Pt II,
> Chapter
> >>>>> VIII,
> >>>>> "The Downes" [Salisbury Plaines].
> >>>>> Phillip Sidney died in 1586; his sister Mary, Countess of Pembroke
> died
> >>>>> in
> >>>>> 1621.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Judy
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 2008/8/25 David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Candice
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> would Sir Pip actually known about Beowulf.? Chaucer,  Gower, yes,
> but
> >>>>>> that? To me, the whole thing smells of Elizabethan publicity stunt
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> PR began a long time ago.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 2008/8/26 MC Ward <[log in to unmask]>:
> >>>>>> > I wonder if Sydney et al. weren't parodying the Beowulf sequence >
> >>>>>> > where
> >>>>>> the scribe composes on horseback as Hrothgar and Beowulf go in
> search
> >>>>>> of
> >>>>>> Grendel's mother. I say "composes" because that term allows for both
> >>>>>> unlettered and literate poets. This one is composing in his head as
> he
> >>>>>> rides
> >>>>>> along on his honorific horse, knowing that whatever way the match
> goes
> >>>>>> he
> >>>>>> need only to follow and do some rearranging of the action at the end
> of
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>> day.
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>> > Candice
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> David Bircumshaw
> >>>>>> Website and A Chide's Alphabet
> >>>>>> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
> >>>>>> The Animal Subsides
> http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
> >>>>>> Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au
> >>> Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com
> >>> Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > David Bircumshaw
> > Website and A Chide's Alphabet
> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
> > The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
> > Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
> >
>
>
>
> --
> My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
> "I began to warm and chill
> to objects and their fields"
> Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds
>

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