The fact that, in II.viii, Guyon is unconscious of the angel, supports
Paul Suttie's point. The angel's visitation shows that he is one of the
elect, but his unconsciousness of it shows that he has not yet
experienced conversion. Cf. Hugh MacLachlan's article, "The Death of
Guyon" in Spenser Studies 1983.
-----Original Message-----
From: Sidney-Spenser Discussion List
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Paul Suttie
Sent: Saturday, 5 April 2008 10:56 p.m.
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Redcrosse's call
I agree that these are very important questions for the interpretation
of
Book One, but I think (especially given the dominant position of
Calvinism
in Elizabethan salvation theology) that we need to distinguish carefully
between RC's election and his conversion. All those who are to be saved
in
the end are elect from the beginning; but the elect live as sinners
until
they experience conversion and the start of the process of regeneration.
So
it wouldn't make sense to suggest that RC becomes one of the elect at
any
point in the story other than 'before the beginning', but it is a
salient
question to ask when in his story he experiences conversion and begins
to
live as one of the faithful. I have a chapter on this in my book
"Self-Interpretation in The Faerie Queene" (Boydell and Brewer, 2006) in
which I discuss Gless's interpretation and others. In a nutshell, I
think
that the different possible moments of conversion identified by Gless
are
not due to vagueness on Spenser's part or a desire to let the reader
decide
but are a very specific representation of the different models of
salvation
offered by Roman Catholic and Protestant theology, and that the former
is
represented as a false version of Christianity, the latter as the truth.
In
more concrete terms, Redcross complacently regards himself from the
beginning of the story as one of the faithful, but doesn't experience
true
(=Protestant) conversion until he comes to the gates of despair in canto
9,
where he is made to see the vanity of his own works and that the one and
only thing that can truly save him is the fact of having been chosen for
salvation by God ("Why shouldst thou then despair, that chosen art?").
The
moment of conversion consists in receiving a true and lively faith in
God's
having elected him for salvation from the beginning. Up till that point,
all his supposed 'faith' is actually mere self-righteousness, the most
dangerous form of spiritual pride.
Paul Suttie
On Apr 4 2008, Reid Robert L. wrote:
>Darryl Gless suggests locating "the all-important divine call before
the
>beginning of RCK's quest, or at the moment when Arthur rescues him from
>Orgoglio's prison, or at the end of canto ix when he seems consciously
>to accept the doctrine of predestined election" (Interpretation &
>Theology in Sp. 145). Gless's reference to "Readers who accept the
>knight's armor as prima facie evidence of his prior election and
>calling" (55) recalls Padelford's comment on the tall clownish young
man
>who, "when clad in the armor of a Christian man, 'seemed the goodliest
>man in al that company,' so recreated was he by the grace of God." When
>does RC receive his call?Abandoning Una (& thus his faith, however
>"immature or untried") assumes an earlier call.
>
>
>
>Jim Broaddus' questioning the precise timing of the "call" seems
>important, and Darryl Gless's nice list of options recalls other
>repetitious features of the moral/religious allegory (why do
allegorical
>figures of "pride" reappear so persistently, yet in such intriguingly
>varied forms?). The question of when the clownish hero was "called"
>might be connected with the Reformation's much-debated question of when
>to be "baptized" (before, or during, the conscious quest)... & the even
>more intensely and anxiously debated question of whether (and when) one
>can be assured of being "saved." Wasn't it G.K. Chesterton who replied
>to a puritan questioner, "Yes sir. I have been saved, I am being saved,
>and I shall be saved." So perhaps the answer is all of the above, with
>the hotline always vulnerable to being again shut down, or again
>renewed. Even at the very end of the Legend of Holiness it seems RCK
is,
>once again, answering a calling to renew the quest that, as David
Miller
>argues, is always challenged and incompletely answered.
>
>Yet, having said that, it seems that Spenser's series of moments (and
>types) of divine call (as listed by Gless) are not simply repetitious
>but form a carefully-structured sequence which DOES offer a rough
>simulacrum of completeness. The defeat of Orgoglio, Despair, and the
>Dragon offer a holistic pattern that matches the three stages of the
>house of Holiness. Thus it seems that the structured pattern of types
of
>calling, answering stages of spiritual need in the life-quest, is
>important.
>
> Robin Reid
>
>
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