And runs down, at least, to S.J. Perelman:
"I loathe writing. On the other hand I'm a great
believer in money. Often when I couldn't pay the
grocery bill, Providence intervened and I don't
mean my natal city, Providence, which can be
counted on for nothing."
Hal
"Information cannot argue with a closed mind."
--Mike Nichols and Elaine May
Halvard Johnson
================
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http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html
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http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html
On Mar 24, 2008, at 6:29 PM, David Bircumshaw wrote:
> Mind you, Nathan, there's a long tradition, in writing, of writers
> questioning the worth of writing (and reading!) It goes back far,
> recall the
> Phaedrus, where Plato has Socrates tell:
>
> "But when they came to letters, This, said Theuth, will make the
> Egyptians
> wiser and give them better memories; it is a specific both for the
> memory
> and for the wit. Thamus replied: O most ingenious Theuth, the parent
> or
> inventor of an art is not always the best judge of the utility or
> inutility
> of his own inventions to the users of them. And in this instance,
> you who
> are the father of letters, from a paternal love of your own children
> have
> been led to attribute to them a quality which they cannot have; for
> this
> discovery of yours will create forgetfulness in the learners' souls,
> because
> they will not use their memories; they will trust to the external
> written
> characters and not remember of themselves. The specific which you have
> discovered is an aid not to memory, but to reminiscence, and you
> give your
> disciples not truth, but only the semblance of truth; they will be
> hearers
> of many things and will have learned nothing; they will appear to be
> omniscient and will generally know nothing; they will be tiresome
> company,
> having the show of wisdom without the reality."
>
> On 24/03/2008, Nathan Hondros <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> "real writers read". I couldn't agree more, Doug. I don't think
>> there was
>> ever a writer who wasn't also a voracious reader.
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 1:22 AM, Douglas Barbour <[log in to unmask]
>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Ah, now pardon me for the previous posts. You seem to realize what's
>>> needed.
>>>
>>> The thing of it is, each of us finds the writers we need (are
>>> different, quite often).
>>>
>>> Doug
>>> On 24-Mar-08, at 7:14 AM, Nathan Hondros wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have this notion that it may be possible to teach literature and
>>>> criticism
>>>> (the construction of the tools; Anny, I like that analogy) but
>>>> that an
>>>> academic understanding of writing and its methods, or even the
>>>> complex
>>>> interaction of a reader with a poem, is more elusive. I can barely
>>>> describe
>>>> the way in which I interact with a good poem, let alone understand
>>>> it on
>>>> more than merely a formal level. Can this form of emotional
>>>> intertwining
>>>> between an audience and a work of art be taught? Perhaps I am
>>>> saying
>>>> that
>>>> what I love is the personal experience of a poem, and not the
>>>> breadth of
>>>> understanding or intellectual concept that underpins it.
>>>>
>>>> I do disagree with the tabula rasa model. All writing owes a debt
>>>> to
>>>> the
>>>> good and the mediocre that went before it, and this must be
>>>> learned or
>>>> unlearned as the case may be.
>>>>
>>>> Ezra Pound advised writers to "pay no attention to the criticism of
>>>> men who
>>>> have never themselves written a notable work". I've read William
>>>> Faulkner
>>>> quoted as saying that real writers are far too arrogant to listen
>>>> to
>>>> anyone
>>>> when it comes to their writing. These two quotes fit so well
>>>> together, don't
>>>> they?
>>>> But, of course, these thoughts of mine are unschooled. Perhaps the
>>>> value of
>>>> schooling in these matters is in knowing what has been thought and
>>>> spoken
>>>> before, so that one doesn't end up repeating what everyone else
>>>> already
>>>> knows? I apologise if that's the case with the rant above!
>>>
>>> Douglas Barbour
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>> http://www.ualberta.ca/~dbarbour/
>>>
>>> Latest books:
>>> Continuations (with Sheila E Murphy)
>>> http://www.uap.ualberta.ca/UAP.asp?LID=41&bookID=664
>>> Wednesdays'
>>>
>>>
>> http://abovegroundpress.blogspot.com/2008/03/new-from-aboveground-press_10.html
>>>
>>> to rid me of
>>> the ugh in
>>> thought
>>> i spell anew
>>> weave the world
>>> out of the or
>>> binary
>>>
>>> bpNichol
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> David Bircumshaw
> Website and A Chide's Alphabet
> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
> The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
> Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
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