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Subject:

Re: The speculative aspect of using Web 2 [was: British Postal Museum & Archive Wiki]

From:

Paul Walk <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Museums Computer Group <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 13:05:56 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (514 lines)

I also would not characterise Twitter as  "a constantly-updated trivia  
machine". While it is a constantly updated feed of small/atomic units  
of information - the nature & 'importance' of that information varies  
tremendously. One of the appealing things about Twitter currently is  
its simplicity - the barriers to entry are vanishingly small as is the  
cost of incorporating it into other activities through its superbly  
simple API.

Not to dwell on a particular product/service, the "very low barrier to  
participation" is now, arguably a reality with a core set of web  
services. The risk involved in experimentation is accordingly somewhat  
reduced. I think this is significant.

Paul


On 27 Mar 2008, at 12:24, Andy Powell wrote:
> Nick,
> I broadly agree with much of what you say below, but it doesn't strike
> me as helpful to [mis-]characterise Twitter as "a constantly-updated
> trivia machine".  Firstly, doing so is hardly conducive to creating an
> environment in which people are encouraged to experiment.  Secondly,  
> it
> strikes me that some people would characterise the whole of the
> blogsphere, the whole of YouTube, or even the whole of the Web, in  
> much
> the same way - which is hardly a reason for museums to stop using them
> as useful tools.
>
> Speaking only for myself, I use Twitter to read and write my fair  
> share
> of trivia, but I also use it for the non-trivial as well.  To take  
> just
> one example, Twitter is now my primary way of being alerted to new
> stories on BBC Education (http://twitter.com/bbceducation) and various
> other parts of the BBC.  Ditto various 'feeds' from the Guardian.
> Certainly not trivia.
>
> Are the BBC and the Guardian mis-guided in experimenting with  
> Twitter as
> a way of engaging with people?  I don't think so.
>
> W.r.t. your final question:
>
>> I think there is real potential in having a safe
>> 'playground' in which to test these propositions before they
>> become live services. Is this something which people would
>> find appealing?
>
> I'm not sure I fully understand what the "safe 'playground'" would
> offer.  At least, not in this case.  In a sense, Twitter *is* the
> playground.  Web 2.0... perpetual beta... and all that??
>
> As an end-user, I have no idea whether the tweets I get from BBC
> Education form part of their 'formal' service offering, or is someone
> experimenting in a beta kind of way... and to be honest, I don't much
> care.  It's useful and it works.
>
> Andy
> --
> Head of Development, Eduserv Foundation
> http://www.eduserv.org.uk/foundation/
> http://efoundations.typepad.com/
> [log in to unmask]
> +44 (0)1225 474319
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Museums Computer Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
>> Behalf Of Nick Poole
>> Sent: 27 March 2008 11:15
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: The speculative aspect of using Web 2 [was:
>> British Postal Museum & Archive Wiki]
>>
>> Tehmina,
>>
>> Thanks for a very interesting and balanced post. I think you
>> are correct - there is an element of exploration involved
>> here, which is obviously an important part of innovation. My
>> concern with these things has always been the risk of a large
>> number of museums investing in basically unsustainable
>> services which do little to support their core mission.
>>
>> On the subject of Twitter, you ask which museum wouldn't want
>> the brief attention of a million people. Firstly, it is
>> highly unlikely that of this million claimed users, more than
>> a couple of tens of thousands are *really* active users (it's
>> the same issue with Second Life's claimed population). This
>> really is a niche market, and my answer would be that even a
>> million brief viewers is of little use at all if it's the
>> *wrong* million, or if our information is lost in a torrent
>> of in-jokes and Silicon Valley startup party invites.
>>
>> We need to think hard about which problems we are going to
>> try and solve, and then identify the best technologies to do
>> so. Imagine a world in which Twitter did not exist (give it a
>> couple of years...) would you really invent a
>> constantly-updated trivia machine as the best way of
>> communicating with museum audiences?
>>
>> I'm willing to bet that you wouldn't.
>>
>> Which takes us back to your original proposition - how do
>> museums find the time and money to play with
>> innovative/speculative services, even where these don't
>> necessarily resolve to long-term changes in the way we do
>> things? I know that Eduserv were looking at investing in a
>> sandbox/incubator in which museums could muck about with
>> stuff. I think there is real potential in having a safe
>> 'playground' in which to test these propositions before they
>> become live services. Is this something which people would
>> find appealing?
>>
>> Nick
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Nick Poole
>> Chief Executive
>> MDA
>>
>> www.mda.org.uk
>> www.collectionslink.org.uk
>>
>>
>>
>> Tel:  01223 316028
>> Fax: 01223 364658
>>
>> MDA (Europe) Ltd: Company Registration No: 1300565 Reg.
>> Office: 22 Hills Road, Cambridge, CB2 1JP.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Museums Computer Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
>> Behalf Of Tehmina Goskar
>> Sent: 27 March 2008 10:23
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: The speculative aspect of using Web 2 [was:
>> British Postal Museum & Archive Wiki]
>>
>> There is also, of course, the speculative aspect of using web
>> 2 methods to either solicit user response or get them to
>> create information for you or spread your information
>> elsewhere.  As both Mike and Nick note, every organisation
>> and project has specific needs and aims and these are the
>> things that should come first.  However I wonder if many
>> organisations big and small are using social networking tools
>> and related applications in a speculative way - to see what
>> happens.  This may result in 'interactions'
>> far beyond expectations or more modest ones but certainly
>> quite often unexpected ones.
>>
>> Many of us who have used flickr, for example, have done so
>> with a desire simply to share information with no specific
>> view on _who_ we should share these things with.  As an
>> individual, I have done the same and have been quite
>> surprised at some of the interest in my photographs, e.g. for
>> a southern American recipe book, for a citizenship website,
>> for an alternative health documentary, for a popular
>> archaeological textbook... some have also been shared on
>> enthusiasts websites including one on manhole covers.  I did
>> not seek any of these outcomes - and certainly did not expect
>> them.  Museums and heritage organisations who do the same
>> will likewise not always know how such things will turn out.
>>
>> A propos the previous post on the critique of apps such as
>> twitter, a million people may not be a big number for Oracle
>> or Cisco but which museum online or otherwise would not want
>> a million people's attention, however brief, on their
>> collections and information?  The technology is also
>> reciprocal.  It's not all about what our audiences will get
>> out of it but what _we_ can get out of it too.
>>
>> There is, for sure, a horses for courses basic rule to using
>> web applications to increase awareness of your organisation
>> and its information but there is also a speculative aspect
>> which, it seems to me, is important - there is also an
>> element of this to putting on temporary exhibitions - it is
>> not always clear who will be interested in them and results
>> can sometimes be surprising.  How you weigh up this
>> speculation against time and resource costs is a more
>> difficult matter to resolve.  The choice just needs to be
>> well-informed.
>>
>> Tehmina
>>
>>
>>
>> On 27/03/2008, Nick Poole <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Rhiannon,
>>>
>>> Many thanks for your email about the BPMA Wiki. I would be really
>>> interested to know more about why the BPMA took the decision to
>>> implement a Wiki. Is it something your online audience have been
>>> requesting? Is there a specific target demographic for whom
>> a Wiki is
>>> their preferred form of interaction?
>>>
>>> The reason I ask is because of your comment about taking
>> time to get
>>> people on there. Of course, this may simply be the inertia faced by
>>> any fledgling service, but at the same time I am not sure
>> whether this
>>> is central to your mission or an incidental add-on.
>>>
>>> Not to be too negative about things, but (bearing in mind
>> the recent
>>> exchange between Frankie and Mike) I remain sceptical about the
>>> appropriateness of models like social networking and participative
>>> media to the delivery of museums online. As Mike notes, there's no
>>> hard and fast rule
>>> - it's appropriate when it's appropriate - but I'd be really
>>> interested to know whether this is a case of 'because we can' or
>>> whether there is a genuine audience/marketing driver behind
>> this thing.
>>>
>>> Similarly, I'd be very interested to know more about the
>> outcomes of
>>> your dissertation - not just from a quantitative point of view (how
>>> many museums are doing this), but also from a qualitative one (of
>>> those museums, how may are doing it well, and how many will
>> still be
>>> an actively supported resource in 2 years time).
>>>
>>> Of course, I see the potential of crowdsourcing interpretation and
>>> selection, and the Wiki model certainly offers a potential
>> channel for
>>> people to get at the museums back-end systems, but I think
>> we run the
>>> risk of overlooking the very specific psychology and
>> demographics of
>>> User Generated Content, and regarding it as something
>> appropriate for
>>> a generalist audience.
>>>
>>> Any further info gratefully received!
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Nick
>>>
>>>
>>> Nick Poole
>>> Chief Executive
>>> MDA
>>>
>>> www.mda.org.uk
>>> www.collectionslink.org.uk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Tel:  01223 316028
>>> Fax: 01223 364658
>>>
>>> MDA (Europe) Ltd: Company Registration No: 1300565 Reg. Office: 22
>>> Hills Road, Cambridge, CB2 1JP.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Museums Computer Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
>> Behalf Of
>>> Rhiannon Looseley
>>> Sent: 26 March 2008 17:43
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: British Postal Museum & Archive Wiki
>>>
>>> Dear all
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I thought some of you might be interested in hearing about the new
>>> British Postal Museum & Archive (BPMA) Wiki:
>>> www.postalheritage.org.uk/wiki.  It's based on Zwiki
>> technology which
>>> is Zope/Plone developers' answer to Wiki technology.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It's a bit of an experiment and at the moment, unsurprisingly, it's
>>> taking a bit of time to get people on there.  I've started
>> a few 'seeds'
>>> to get people started.  At the bottom of this email is an
>> example of
>>> the email we sent out to our E-Newsletter mailing list to try and
>>> encourage people to contribute.  It gives you an example of some of
>>> the seeds we're using at the moment.  We've created similar
>> flyers and
>>> newsletter articles as well.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I would be interested in hearing any suggestions others
>> might have on
>>> topics we could use to get people started and also experiences of
>>> building up a community like this.  I'm particularly keen
>> to find ways
>>> of making the most of Wikis' potential for collaborative work.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Also if you're interested, I'm currently writing my MA in Museum
>>> Studies Dissertation on Museum Wikis, with ours as a case
>> study.  I'm
>>> blogging about my progress at:
>> http://rhiannonlooseley.blogspot.com if
>>> anyone is interested in following my progress.  I'd welcome any
>>> comments along the way (please let me know if you
>> specifically don't
>>> want me to quote your comments, either on my blog, or by
>> email, in my dissertation).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>> Rhiannon Looseley
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Rhiannon Looseley
>>>
>>> Web Officer
>>>
>>> Tel: 020 7239 2588
>>>
>>> Fax: 020 7239 2576
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>>>
>>> The British Postal Museum & Archive (BPMA)
>>>
>>> Freeling House, Phoenix Place, London WC1X 0DL
>>>
>>> www.postalheritage.org.uk <http://www.postalheritage.org.uk/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> British postal communications helped to shape the modern world. The
>>> British Postal Museum & Archive illuminates the lives of
>> people in the
>>> Post Office, the messages carried by Royal Mail, the history we all
>>> share. Our history through the post.
>>>
>>> The BPMA is the public identity of the Postal Heritage Trust.
>>>
>>> Registered as a charity in England and Wales.
>>> Registered Charity Number 1102360
>>> Company Number 4896056
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Family History Research
>>>
>>>
>>> Researching your postal ancestors? Want to share what you've
>>> discovered with a wider audience? Why not use the Wiki to
>> tell others
>>> about your research?
>>>
>>> Use the Wiki Family history research
>>>
>> <http://www.massmailer.co.uk/go.php?RKKH2J8JU8N459OE7Q6963B7UOK4YSTV>
>>> page to get started.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Postal History
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you know a lot about a certain aspect of postal history?
>> Have you
>>> uncovered a particularly interesting story in our archive? Why not
>>> tell us more about them on the Wiki?
>>>
>>> Use the Wiki Postal history
>>>
>> <http://www.massmailer.co.uk/go.php?RKKH2J8JU8N459OEYMPO78SIJ7MY0JO3>
>>> page to get started.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Working with our collections
>>>
>>>
>>> Did you/do you work for the Post Office? Do you recognise
>> some of the
>>> objects and documents in our Collections section
>>>
>> <http://www.massmailer.co.uk/go.php?RKKH2J8JU8N459OE0QP7O71MVG
>> I0PIQW> ?
>>> Why not tell us about what it was/is like to work with them?
>>>
>>> Use the Wiki Working with our collections
>>>
>> <http://www.massmailer.co.uk/go.php?RKKH2J8JU8N459OEBHDGUI0DHZ2L69O7>
>>> page to get started.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Working for the Post Office
>>>
>>>
>>> Did you/do you work for the Post Office or Royal Mail? Tell
>> us about
>>> your experiences on the Wiki.
>>>
>>> What do you think has changed over the years? We'd be interested to
>>> hear what you think.
>>>
>>> Use the Wiki Working for the Post Office
>>>
>> <http://www.massmailer.co.uk/go.php?RKKH2J8JU8N459OECZXA1DOTRLJIRJAD>
>>> to get started.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Letter boxes
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you have a digital image of a particularly interesting
>> letter box?
>>> Why not upload your image to the Wiki and tell us more about it.
>>>
>>> Is there a letter box near you that you would like to know
>> more about?
>>> Maybe someone else out there can help you with your query.
>> You could
>>> post a question on the Wiki.
>>>
>>> Use the Wiki Letter boxes
>>>
>> <http://www.massmailer.co.uk/go.php?RKKH2J8JU8N459OE789FM2I4ZDYIV491>
>>> page to get started.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> War Memorials in the Post Office
>>>
>>>
>>> Have you noticed a War Memorial in your local Post Office?
>> Please help
>>> us compile our database of Post Office War Memorials.
>>>
>>> Use our Wiki War Memorials in the Post Office
>>>
>> <http://www.massmailer.co.uk/go.php?RKKH2J8JU8N459OETUG225U1E5M98XFF>
>>> page to get started.
>>>
>>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> --
>>> ------
>>>
>>>
>>> **************************************************
>>> For mcg information and to manage your subscription to the
>> list, visit
>>> the website at http://www.museumscomputergroup.org.uk
>>> **************************************************
>>>
>>> **************************************************
>>> For mcg information and to manage your subscription to the
>> list, visit
>>> the website at http://www.museumscomputergroup.org.uk
>>> **************************************************
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tehmina Goskar, MA AMA
>> [log in to unmask]
>>
>> Web Communication Development for Culture, Heritage and
>> Academia Museum Specialist Historian
>>
>> **************************************************
>> For mcg information and to manage your subscription to the
>> list, visit the website at http://www.museumscomputergroup.org.uk
>> **************************************************
>>
>> **************************************************
>> For mcg information and to manage your subscription to the
>> list, visit the website at http://www.museumscomputergroup.org.uk
>> **************************************************
>>
>
> **************************************************
> For mcg information and to manage your subscription to the list,  
> visit the website at http://www.museumscomputergroup.org.uk
> **************************************************


--------------------------------------------
Paul Walk
Technical Manager
UKOLN (University of Bath)
http://www.ukoln.ac.uk/
[log in to unmask]
+44(0)1225383933
--------------------------------------------

**************************************************
For mcg information and to manage your subscription to the list, visit the website at http://www.museumscomputergroup.org.uk
**************************************************

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