medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
A footnote: Most of the English regalia are post Commonwealth, except
the spoon used to anoint the new monarch. There's a rather nice picture
of it & the Ampulla at:
http://www.waxmuseum.bc.ca/waxexhibitsjewels.asp
Arthur Conan Doyle used this fact in the Sherlock Holmes story "The
Musgrave Ritual," which involves a crown entrusted by Charles I to the
Musgraves.
Tom Izbicki
Ms B M Cook wrote:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> I have no idea of the ritualistic aspects of the English [sic =
> British] monarch's coronation. I'm certain the ceremony has changed a
> bit through the years and it's been a while since the Brits put on
> such a magnificent spectacle.
>
> @ 1953. It was televised (I saw it at my grandparents' house in
> London) and IIRC the film is available on video - B&W naturally - for
> the interested. Or possibly a coloured film made at the time.
>
>
> I'd bet it's done in Westminster Abbey with the Archbishop of
> Canterbury presiding,
>
> @Correct. But the A of York takes a major part. The leaders of the
> other religious denominations - Christian and other were also present.
>
> but I know I'll be corrected if I'm mistaken. All I know is that the
> French kings were "sacred" (p.p. of the verb "to sacre", which verb is
> obsolete) by the archbishop of Reims (by no means all, but most) and
> were henceforth "l'oint du Seigneur," (anointed of the Lord). Renan (I
> believe) called "le sacre du roi" the 8th sacrament and indeed the
> anointings, laying on of hands, etc. came extremely close to an
> ordination. Add in "le toucher du roi" and you get ever more in the
> realm of the religious/sacramental.
>
> @ Yes, the Queen was annointed as well as crowned. The Holy Oils are
> kept in a special gold flask called the ampulla (It is shaped like an
> eagle - there are books about the Coronation Regalia and its symbols
> which are absolutely fascinating and very beautiful. The stuff is also
> on show at the Tower of London if you are passing that way) which is
> used only for the annointing of monarchs. Interesting point is that
> her robes were covered with a linen smock for this part of the service
> to keep the oil off the cloth of gold and silk. Even more interesting
> is that we TV viewers did not get a chance to see the actual
> annointing. It was deemed too intimate and holy for prying eyes and
> the camera was focussed firmly on the High Altar while we listened to
> the commentator (Richard Dimbleby of course.) The Establishment did
> not want the cameras there at all for any of it, it was the Queen
> herself who insisted that her people had the right to see her - very
> revolutionary for the date!
>
> So my questions are: how closely did the installation of the English
> [and Scottish] kings mirror that of their French colleagues at the
> time of Brenda's king; and how "into Orders" was an anointed king
> deemed to be?
>
> @The coronation service HAS changed over the years - it is modified
> for every monarch. Additionally, there would have been local varients
> in all the European monarchies. But I think the basic elements which
> are Election [= Affirmation of Choice], Oath Taking, Anointing,
> Crowning, Homage, were common to all. It is now a "Protestant" service
> not a "Roman Catholic" one but the Queen is the "Supreme Governor of
> the Church of England" and the A of Canterbury does homage to her for
> his secular possessions - a nice compromise. Very C of E. which is
> still the established church. [The present Queen is actually the King
> in as much as she is the monarch and not the monarch's spouse.]
>
> Would Brenda's king have felt compelled to do extra penance precisely
> because of the religious/quasi-sacramental nature of his office?
>
> @I would have thought that there was a very strong element of that in
> it. It was not just patricide, which is bad enough, but High Treason
> as well. The King is seeen as the super-father of the nation, and
> because annointed, a holy person if not in Orders.
>
> I am not expert - just a monarchist, but I think the above is roughtly
> correct.
>
> BMC
>
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