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MANDARIN-CHINESE-TEACHING  November 2007

MANDARIN-CHINESE-TEACHING November 2007

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Subject:

Re: Your views

From:

Marcus Reoch <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Mandarin Chinese Teaching <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 13 Nov 2007 20:55:00 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (1 lines)

Take this off line please..... Xie xie. 





Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device



-----Original Message-----

From:         Qiao Liang <[log in to unmask]>



Date:         Tue, 13 Nov 2007 20:51:28 

To:[log in to unmask]

Subject: Re: Your views





Dear George,

I am afraid I didn't mean to upset you at the first place. I don't 

understand why you are so angry about one word! However I don't want to 

discuss this matter any further as I have more important things to deal 

with.

Many thanks any way.

Qiao



--On 13 November 2007 09:36 +0000 george zhiyuzhao 

<[log in to unmask]> wrote:



>

> dear qiao,

>  i think your last email is for me. what i said is general word for every

> body. i did not like the word nonsense as it is not a acdamic word for

> analyse and it is not helpful at all. for many years in england, i am

> never allowed myself to be angry or fight with our  chinese people. it is

> not surprising me that you are a experenced teacher; i know there are

> lots fo outstanding chinese teachers in UK. i am a native speaker, having

> taught chinese for many years in a top high school in China, i did

> grammar and literature revision courses many years to grade 3 student for

> their gaokao in my school. i also asked professor Qi,doctorial

> supervisor, about that and my points, whose acdamic area is mordern

> chinese language.   about de, it should be right putting it after hongse

> or other phrase or word to modify in most sentences; but it is also right

> without de in many sentences or phrases. i did know what the teacher book

> said about this, but you can also find the sentence in Chinese Gcse: wo

> xihuan zhongguo yinyue

>

> you can get in Cc 's email as well.

>

> if you still want to argu, you can give you other examples, the meaning

> of hong(red)is as same as  one possible meaning of red  in i am a red

> girl.

> rong yiren shi hongse zibenjia.      sulian shi hongse zhengquan.

>

> spoken chinese is a flexible and not accurate, especially for a short

> sentences without context (yujing) and some word maybe used by its biyuyi

> or  yinshenyi. and the grammar of spoken language is more difficult, this

> is why i said we had to make efforts to learn more and encourage us to be

> good.

> you have been over-protecting yourself, perhaps so am i, which did upset

> me a lot. you want a meet, you can sent email to me; i would like to have

> a chat.

> i want to remind our teachers here, the sentence that i think is

> grammatically wrong is No.2 in sentence patterns, p144 , Chinese for GCSE

> book3.

> never talk that long, i hope i am not going to be fired.

>

> thanks

>

> george

>

>

>> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 23:08:39 +0000> From: [log in to unmask]>

>> Subject: Re: Your views> To: [log in to unmask]> >

>> Well, you don't have to be so angry about one word and blame others! We

>> are > just having a discussion to help each other. If you don't accept

>> my view > that is find. However, the reason I used the word 'Nonsense'

>> is to > differentiate from what you said 'grammatically correct' because

>> I didn't > really want to jump into a quick conclusion that sentence you

>> said was > actually unacceptable. But if you ask any native Chinese

>> people about this > sentence to see their response you will realize what

>> I meant by 'Nonsense'. > Do you think Nonsense is a bad word? Do you

>> really hate it? I am sorry > about it!> > Secondary, I put forward my

>> opinion in this discussion as I found this > topic was very interesting.

>> I did not have any intention to charge or blame > any teachers. I fully

>> appreciate every teacher has their own strength. I am > no better than

>> you or others. Personally I don't know any of you and I > don't even

>> remember who raised this question.> > Sorry I don't understand your no.3

>> point as some words did not show > properly. Do you mean we cannot say

>> 'hong de'? If yes, I am surprised to > hear that.> > Finally I am

>> totally and completely agree with you that all Chinese > teachers should

>> be VERY good at Chinese grammar. It will be even better if > we are

>> armed with some knowledge of English grammar. But mind you a good >

>> grammarian dose not equal to a good teacher. Grammar is the rules of the

>> > language but they cannot rule our speech. That is the difference

>> between > native speakers and non-native speakers.> > If you don't like

>> different opinions or oppositions, I fully understand it > and accept

>> it. But for the benefit of other teachers I think this kind of > debate

>> should be encouraged as we are in a democratic society.> > Unfortunately

>> I don't understand your first point. Never mind. Calm down! I > hope to

>> meet you one day if possible!> best wishes> Qiao> --On 12 November 2007

>> 10:46 +0000 george zhiyuzhao > <[log in to unmask]> wrote:> >

>> >> > Dear colleagues,> >> > I do agree with Cc, and thanks for

>> explanations. For this case, I list my> > points: 1. all Chinese teacher

>> have to be very good at Chinese grammar.> > 2. the sentence I am a red

>> girl (can not use Chinese fonts in school ) is> > correct. There are

>> only two possible reasons of any wrong sentence,> > grammatically

>> incorrect and logically incorrect. so, for that special> > case: a. it

>> is grammatically incorrect; b. we have to guess what that> > exactly

>> means; and it has many meanings which are right and meaningful;> > so we

>> can not simply say it is nonsense. 3. In both written and spoken> >

>> language, we don?t have to put ?de? after red, you can find examples in>

>> > many books or dictionaries. And, not only for colours, for lots noun

>> or> > noun phrases as well; I am not too sure about adjective phrases,

>> as I> > don?t have any grammar book; I might help if there are some

>> examples. 4.> > as a teacher, we have to face any problems or issues

>> like that. 5. as a> > teacher, do behave yourselves. Don?t blame or

>> charge other teachers,> > nobody is good enough for that. 6. thanks for

>> discussion, which is> > really helpful.> >> > Thanks> >> > george> >>

>> Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 22:03:59 +0000> From: [log in to unmask]> Subject:>

>> >> Re: Your views> To: [log in to unmask]> > Dear>

>> >> Chinese Teachers,> > If you ARE interested in GRAMMAR, then perhaps

>> you> >> might want to consider to open the attachment. Before you do,

>> there is a> >> number of things to clarify:> > 1. It is not an attempt

>> to compile an> >> exhaustive list of colours> 2. It is an attempt to

>> share ideas> 3. The> >> list is entirely composed out of memory, hence

>> errors will occur> 4.> >> I've had so much fan in writing it out> > I

>> thank those who have> >> provided the impetus for me to look into the

>> matter.> > With my very> >> best wishes,> > Cc> > -----Original

>> Message-----> From: Mandarin Chinese> >> Teaching

>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of> >> Qiao

>> Liang> Sent: 2007?11?8? 22:11> To:> >>

>> [log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Your views> > I>

>> >> am surprised that you all said that this sentence could be accepted

>> >> >> because it is 'grammatically correct'. How about semantics? Do we>

>> >> actually > say it like this in Chinese? (Surely this is not a good>

>> >> English sentence.) > Are we teaching our children to speak nonsense

>> so> >> long as it is > grammatically acceptable? I think everyone knows

>> in> >> languages there are > many exceptions to the rules of grammar so

>> we as> >> teachers should not over > emphasis the use of grammar in our

>> teaching> >> especially to our young > children. Most English children,

>> as far as I> >> know, are already very > confused by their English

>> grammar so we should> >> keep our grammar as simple > as possible.

>> Unfortunately not many English> >> people nowadays know the term > of

>> 'predictive' except linguists. I> >> think we should teach our learners

>> not > only grammatically correct but> >> also semantically sound Chinese

>> sentences. > This is only my personal> >> view, please let me know your

>> comment. Many thanks > for your> >> attention.> Qiao> University of

>> Sussex> > --On 07 November 2007 23:18> >> +0800 Cheryl Huang

>> <[log in to unmask]> > wrote:> > >> >> >> Grammatically correct. If a

>> student make a sentence such as this. I> >> >> would accept it is a

>> correct sentence, especially for the primary> >> school> > pupils. (And

>> give the pupil a good thumb up for the effort!)> >> And it(the> >

>> sentence) would work when talking about pictures, stories> >> or some

>> comic> > situations anyway. One might like to help them rephrase> >> it

>> to make a> > clearer context. Otherwise, it is nothing wrong to make> >>

>> a sentence that> > might seem a bit silly in a native speaker's ears.

>> To> >> my view, it is> > fine! For more able pupils, one can help making

>> the> >> sentence with more> > details, such as ÎÒÊǺìÉ«Í··¢µÄÅ®º¢. or>

>> >> ÎÒÊÇ´©ºìÉ«Ò·þµÄÄǸöÅ®º¢£¬ ...> > Let's not forget languages are

>> also> >> about creativity.> >> > Cheryl> >> >> > Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007

>> 14:24:08> >> +0000From:> > [log in to unmask]: Re: Your

>> viewsTo:> >> >> [log in to unmask]> >> >> > Dear

>> Colleagues, I> >> think you have already made that a bit complcated. if>

>> > just talked> >> about grammar, there is nothing with context of the

>> sentence.> >> >> ÎÒÊǺìÉ«Å®º¢. is grammatically correct, sub+ predicate

>> + object, but> >> >> maybe has many meanings which can not be changed

>> to> >> ÎÒÊǸöºìÉ«µÄÅ®º¢×Ó¡£> > also, there is nothing with numbers of>

>> >> characters as your explanation.> > hope it is helpful. george> Date:>

>> >> Wed, 7 Nov 2007 11:51:14 +0000> From:> > [log in to unmask]> Subject:

>> Re:> >> Your views> To:> > [log in to unmask]> >

>> Dear> >> Isabella,> > In my> > humble view, '¡£' would be idiomatically

>> better. >> >> > Generally - from the> > top of my head - if the colour

>> adjective has> >> one only character, you may> > use it right before a

>> noun, eg, ºìÅ®º¢;> >> °×³ÄÉÀ. If there are two or more> > characters,

>> you would like to use> >> É«µÄ as a sort of suffix, eg,> >

>> ÉîÀ¶É«µÄ³ÄÉÀ.> > However, there are> >> exceptions - ÎÒ°®ÕâÀ¶É«µÄº£Ñó...

>> or> > the repetitive form:> >> À¶À¶µÄÌìÉÏ°×ÔÆÆ®¡£> > If there is a

>> metaphor> > character before the> >> colour, ie, Ñ©°×, »ðºì etc, then µÄ

>> is commonly> > used: »ðºìµÄÄê´ú.> >> >> It would be easier if you could

>> provide a context,> > then the choice of> >> words would be far more

>> precise.> > We are talking> > about Modern> >> Standard Chinese, not

>> hangovers from Classical Chinese of> > course.> >> ÎÒÊǺìÉ«Å®º¢¡£> >

>> ×£ºÃ¡£> > Cc> > -----Original Message----->> > From:> >> Mandarin

>> Chinese Teaching> >> >>

>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of

>> Isabella>> >> > Teng> Sent: 2007Äê11ÔÂ6ÈÕ 21:06> To:> >> >>

>> [log in to unmask]> Subject: Your views> > > > I>>

>> >> > would appreciate it very much, if you could give me any comments,

>> in>> >> > terms of accuracy, on the sentence below. > > I also put the

>> pinyin> >> down> > in case you cannot read the characters: W¨¯ sh¨¬

>> h¨®ng s¨¨ n¨·> >> h¨¢i.> >> > This is just a single sentence, there is

>> no context with the> >> sentence.> >> > > > > Thank you in

>> anticipation.> > > > Isabella Teng>> >> >> >

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