I have been involved in developing several wiki communities and would be happy to contribute.

Jürgen made this comment:
> How I said, this must be done professionally. Not only concerning the 
> technic, design and structure, but also in the longterm conception of 
> the objective.

Wiki technology is mostly already professional enough. So the key issues become:
(a) The evolution of the wiki design in the broadest sense, including the "conception of the objective"
(b) Achieving a critical mass of authors/editors
(c) Stimulating interest in a larger group of people who will be mostly readers/searchers of the wiki


Professor Clive Holtham 
[log in to unmask] 
phone: +44-20-7040-8622 
fax: +44-20-7040-8328 
video: +44-20-7786-9674 
Short CV: http://www.staff.city.ac.uk/c.w.holtham/holthamcv.htm 
Map: http://www.cass.city.ac.uk/about/location/index.html 
Cass Business School, City of London, 106 Bunhill Row, LONDON EC1Y 8TZ


-----Original Message-----
From: Aesthetics, Creativity, and Organisations Research Network [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Daved Barry
Sent: 28 November 2007 11:20
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: ACORN Wiki for Online Learning Community Use

Great! Sign me up as well--I'd be delighted to help, especially if you can make the technical parts work! Daved

-----Original Message-----
From: Aesthetics, Creativity, and Organisations Research Network [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Paul Steelman
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 5:27 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: ACORN Wiki for Online Learning Community Use

Ok, I have now read the list serve and blog messages. Thank you John, Daved, Jurgen, Hilde, Ken, and others. Very interesting and very helpful. But I could not find an action hook. So here is one. Blogs are good for community conversations, Wikis are good for accumulating expert opinions. What ever else we are, we are also some kind of "expert" to our students. Collectively AACORN has a lot of expertise to share. Wiki is a flexible and evolutionary vehicle for online communal sharing.

I have some experience in creating online learning communities. I am interested in creating a Wiki that can be used as a communally authored "evolving text" for courses dealing with Organizational Art/Aesthetics. 
The goal is to create a site that would be useful for learners of art and managing/organizing.

Setting up a wiki is not rocket science. There are over 25 wiki programs out there, that can be set up with various levels of capabilities and ease of use.

But there are three key requirements for success - 1. Initial commitment of about 10-15 people willing to contribute at least once a month for at least one year (Editors) to get things going, contributions can be in the form of writing content, or checking content. editing, coordinating, documenting, etc.
2. Agreement on an initial List of Content Topics, (my illustrative list is below my signature, if people in point 1 send a list of topics from their current courses that could be a starting point, 3. Commitment to use the resulting Wiki somehow in our classes as an assignment or a reading, or as example of a good/bad experiment!! , so that the site develops an audience as it is self-developing..

Do we have 12 brave souls willing to spend two hours each month in this experiment. Act now or forever hold your peace.

Paul

--
Paul Shrivastava, Ph.D.
Howard I. Scott Chair & Professor of Management Bucknell University Management Department, Taylor 305 Lewisburg, PA 17837
Tel: 610-737-7333
www.facstaff.bucknell.edu/shrivast

Topics: Managerial Aesthetics, Artful work, Art as a key to human emotions and passion, Embodied learning, Managing with passion, Didgeridoo










Daved Barry wrote:
>
> Hi Everyone. What follows is a general discussion that we (those of us 
> who've previously worked with Aacorn web stuff) have been having about 
> the Aacorn blog and website. I think it's gotten to the point where 
> others in the community might want to chime in, so I've taken the 
> liberty of posting what's been said. The discussion started with 
> Jürgen Bergmann's comment (at the bottom of this note), where he 
> pointed out that our blog hasn't been used for almost a year and that 
> it was filled with spam (which John Churchley, our webmaster, has 
> kindly removed now-thanks John!). One of his points is that both our 
> website and blog are founded on Web 1 assumptions. Ross Churchley 
> spent a lot of time making the website and blog attractive and 
> workable, and Laurene Vaughan and her acid group also ran a noble 
> experiment in providing a multi-platform meeting place . . . but in 
> the end, nothing's ever attracted much contribution, except our 
> listserv (which has been a really good friend indeed).
>
> Jürgen has some interesting suggestions, mostly along Wiki-based and 
> Web 2-based lines . . . his idea is that if we want to stick something 
> on the web, it should be serious and a resource that can develop into 
> the next decade. With this, he poses the question: "What is the 
> relevant objective of AACORN?"
>
> John has provided a really thoughtful response, based on all his 
> web-based efforts in the BC school system. Given our own previous 
> Aacorn efforts, and John's comments, I'm thinking that the only thing 
> that would work is some kind of critical resource-something with 
> 'viral content' as John notes. For my part, I only tend to frequent 
> websites where I /really/ need the information-usually stuff that's 
> connected with my wallet and having to make purchases. Anyway, your 
> thoughts on this are very welcome. Also, if any of you are technically 
> skilled and interested in doing a wiki-like something, please chime 
> in. I know we have many new members, and maybe it's time to revisit 
> the wiki idea with the hope that some of our 'new blood' can help out. 
> John's been voluntarily shouldering the technical burden for quite 
> some time, all on top of finishing his PhD and running a school system 
> and being with his family, and it would be great if he had some help. D
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: John Churchley [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 4:56 AM
> To: 'Jürgen Bergmann'; [log in to unmask]
> Cc: 'Hilde Bollen'; 'Ken Friedman'; [log in to unmask]; 
> 'Bathurst, Ralph'
> Subject: RE: homepage aacorn
>
> Hi folks:
>
> It's time I chimed in to the conversation.
>
> First of all, I'm kind of embarrassed that I missed the spam all this 
> time. I've checked the blog a few times over the past few months, but 
> never scrolled down to see the spam comments.
>
> I've deleted all the spam, and changed the settings so that hopefully 
> it won' t happen again. That bit's done...
>
> However, before I delete the blog, I think we need to address some of 
> the bigger issues that Jürgen is referring to below.
>
> I've been doing lots of thinking about on-line networks, as I've been 
> trying for a year to get another one off the ground, that would 
> connect about 15 arts-focus schools in my province. I tried to build 
> it on an on-line learning platform, "Moodle". Our local university and 
> schools have been using it a lot, so I had some experience and 
> technical support. It has tons of features including forums, wiki's, 
> file sharing, etc etc. I was SO convinced of its usefulness, that last 
> January I submitted a proposal to present a paper on it at a 
> conference this Fall (in hopes of expanding it internationally to arts 
> focus schools everywhere).....insert ironic pause here.....
>
> To make a long story short, it didn't work. Of course I still had to 
> present the paper, so I presented how it failed. I've attached a 
> Powerpoint presentation that summarizes my comments. A few key ideas:
>
> 1. Despite a reasonably user-friendly interface and LOTS of 
> opportunities for collaborative input, nobody contributed....even the 
> same people who were intensely excited to find each other at a 
> face-to-face meeting wouldn't "post the time of day" on the website.
>
> 2. I found many other such communities that didn't work....including one 
> for all of the school district IT managers in our province...apparently 
> they like listservs better....and they're the most tech-savvy group 
> around - they like computers!
>
> 3. It appears that very few on-line communities survive without 
> ever-changing, "viral" content, and a critical mass of "connected" 
> contributors (that contribute frequently).
>
> 4. The other ironic bit is that only 3 people came to my paper 
> presentation (late Friday afternoon on a sunny day in San Francisco...). 
> All 3 of them had experienced exactly the same problem, and had come 
> looking for an answer. We shared our frustrations and then went for a 
> drink.
>
> Having said that, I totally agree with Jürgen's comments - the 
> collaborative (and potentially creative) nature of Web 2.0 
> applications fits AACORN well. Our current website, while not 
> necessarily "old" technology, reflects "old" internet thinking. Ross 
> spent a lot of time making the website and the blog as aesthetically 
> pleasing as possible. However, with neither new content, nor user 
> input, it is just a pretty shell (that collects spam). I also wonder 
> if we should try out a completely different platform like Ning (I 
> think Laurene or someone mentioned it a few years back). Ning doesn't 
> have wiki's or quite the same level of collaborative stuff that 
> Jürgen's suggesting, but it does allow users to upload photos and 
> videos, participate in forums (...gee, this is starting to sound 
> familiar), and edit their own profiles. This last one is a sore point 
> for me, as I feel guilty that I haven't built any new profiles for the 
> new AACORN members since the summer...I'm just too busy (dissertation: 
> 13,000 words done and 47,000+ left to go - by the way, I've got some 
> interesting results that I'd like to share sometime).
>
> At any rate, there don't appear to be any easy solutions. However, I'm 
> at your service to do whatever to the website - delete the blog, add a 
> wiki, whatever!
>
> John
>
> John Churchley
>
> District Principal - Human Resources
>
> School District #73 (Kamloops/Thompson)
>
> Kamloops, BC, CANADA
>
> [log in to unmask]
>
> From: Jürgen Bergmann [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 11:06 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Cc: 'John Churchley'; 'Hilde Bollen'; 'Ken Friedman'; 
> [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: homepage aacorn
>
> Hi Daved, John
>
> and the others,
>
> I think we should not delete the blog itself.
>
> It's a good fundament.
>
> The question of blogs and wikis
>
> it to meet the relevant objectives of the community.
>
> It's not enough to realise the platform.
>
> A blog or wiki are based on open contentmanagement.
>
> It is necessary to focuse the conception of the objective.
>
> Than this focus should be captured technically.
>
> Actually the blog is not focused.
>
> So it is not usefull for others to visit the page.
>
> The most succesfull wikis or blogs are really extremly focused.
>
> For example: dictionairies were everybody can contribute.
>
> The big question is:
>
> What is the relevant objective of AACORN?
>
> Even if it seems, that this is a extremly large objecitve,
>
> there is a focuse which could be articulated as the top of the edge.
>
> It must be articulated through the philosophie of web 2.0
>
> and the concret technical realisablitity and it's relevance.
>
> We are now in the periode were the big platforms are launched
>
> as some thousand years ago the religions.
>
> Later it will be to late.
>
> They will evoluate through time and become more and more important.
>
> See wikipedia.
>
> How could aacorn launch such a platform
>
> where it is possible that know-how, knowledge, definitions,
>
> informations, experiences, even awarness, etc. focused on
>
> the objective of aacorn can be accumulated in that way,
>
> that the content of that platform will be intensivied, auto-adapted,
>
> auto-corrected, interacitvied, related, etc. through time
>
> by the members of the community.
>
> If we would lunch such a platform,
>
> I assure you, that it will be powerfull in some years or decades.
>
> And this is what matters concerning art, organisation and business.
>
> But this is, as I said, only possible, if we can articulate a focused 
> and relevant objective.
>
> In other words: What is the identity of aacorn seen through
>
> the philosophie of web 2.0?
>
> And this is already the big question for aacorn.
>
> The maxime of the philosophie of web 2.0 is
>
> that the community is more important as the individual.
>
> aacron is full of extremly excentric individuals:
>
> scientiest, artists and managers!!!
>
> Isn't this a big challenge?
>
> If we aacorners are not ready to switch our perception
>
> aacorn we will not be perceived in the future!
>
> You see,
>
> articulate a focused objecitve, an identity,
>
> gets immediatley a political dimension.
>
> Therefore the articulation must be performed or realised
>
> through the perception of web 2.0 and it's consequences.
>
> The question is not:
>
> How can I be represented, contribute or share input with others
>
> the question is:
>
> How can I disappear in the community.
>
> Actually, I think, most of the members think of their benefice.
>
> The individual profit is relevant.
>
> It's the big question: What is relevant for the community?
>
> A community is not a network!
>
> You wrote:
>
> "or whether it's just that this group prefers emails and a listserve."
>
> Yes, it's just that!
>
> But just that is here the expression of the individual identities.
>
> If you think this could be a first step
>
> send your answer by the aacorn listmail server.
>
> I'm not sure.
>
> Best regards
>
> Jürgen
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Daved Barry <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>
> To: 'Jürgen Bergmann' <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>
> Cc: 'John Churchley' <mailto:[log in to unmask]> ; 'Hilde Bollen' 
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> ; 'Ken Friedman' <mailto:[log in to unmask]> ; 
> [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>
> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 3:38 PM
>
> Subject: RE: homepage aacorn
>
> John, I think you must have the 'key' to the blog-seems to me that it 
> was either you or Ross who set it up? And then sent us administrator 
> keys? I can't recall now. But I'm with Jurgen here-I think we should 
> just close it down and delete it. The last entry was almost a year ago 
> and there's tons of junk in the replies section. So John, what do you 
> think? Can you read the blog its last rites? I'm happy to send out a 
> note to the listserv saying that the blog is no more-let me know.
>
> In terms of a wiki, Jurgen, you're further along with your thinking 
> than I am. Maybe you should contact Rob Austin (who has the technical 
> know-how, but I'm not sure he has any time)-see if he'd like to 
> partner to set something up. Or put out a general call to the network 
> and see if anyone wants to help. We've had a lot of new members lately 
> and perhaps someone there has the time and skill. D
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: Jürgen Bergmann [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 12:17 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Cc: 'John Churchley'; 'Hilde Bollen'; 'Ken Friedman'; 
> [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: homepage aacorn
>
> Hi Daved,
>
> it's not possible or me to delete all the spams on the blog. This 
> needs rights and password of the administrator.
>
> Your Mail 27.09.2007: We (mostly John and Ross Churchley-thanks 
> again!) have started an aacorn blog: www.aacorn.net/blog/ 
> <http://www.aacorn.net/blog/>. Steve Taylor and I have kicked it off 
> with a post on teaching the art of management.
>
> The problem with this kind of spams is, when you open one, the ID of 
> your computer will be registered and than the robot is looking 
> immediatedly if there are some e-mail adresses to catch for this ID. 
> But in general there are tools which can block such posts in the blog.
>
> I'm not a specialist. I'm only user.
>
> If we (aacorn) could develop some kind of wiki, that would be a great 
> think. When it is done professionally. In the beginning this will be 
> very slow, but within the time the crowing content will become more 
> and more attractive for all sort of people in this field.
>
> How I said, this must be done professionally. Not only concerning the 
> technic, design and structure, but also in the longterm conception of 
> the objective.
>
> As I had the idea of organising a form-conference, I realised that 
> this is not the right way and actually I'm working on the conception 
> for a wiki or blog around my own work.
>
> I could be part - by that experience - of a group to conceive a wiki. 
> But we need some one who has advanced technical and conceptual 
> know-how and would be able to attend (evey day a look), maintain and 
> upgrade the platform over the coming years. I don't think that it is 
> possible to develop and maintain such a platform by a group of 
> amateurs. If such a platform is really professional, the objective 
> could also be, to earn money. This needs a profound reflection for the 
> conception.
>
> Best regards
>
> Jürgen
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Daved Barry <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>
> To: 'Jürgen Bergmann' <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>
> Cc: 'John Churchley' <mailto:[log in to unmask]> ; 'Hilde Bollen' 
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> ; 'Ken Friedman' <mailto:[log in to unmask]> ; 
> [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>
> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 12:03 PM
>
> Subject: RE: homepage aacorn
>
> Hi Jürgen! Thanks very much for this note. I haven't looked at the 
> blog in a long time-I can't remember who put it up (was it me?). I 
> completely agree that we should take down the blog-if any of you know 
> how to do this, please let me know. I also like the idea of a wiki. 
> This is something we played around with before, but nothing ever 
> became of it. Rob Austin had originally volunteered to set it up, but 
> never did. It's a bit odd why none of the regular web-based formats 
> have worked with the aacorn group. I don't know if it's because 
> everyone's so busy that no-one has time to make a blog or website or 
> wiki work, or whether it's just that this group prefers emails and a 
> listserve. I think it must be the latter-everything we've done so 
> far-the website, blog, Laurene Vaghan's "mashup"-none of it has gone 
> anywhere. Something I think would be good are some face-to-face 
> meetings. I've also thought of setting up something like a skype 
> conference (though I'm sort of technologically crippled, so I don't 
> know quite how such a virtual conference could go). It's clear that we 
> have some really interesting people doing really interesting stuff, 
> and fun people besides-so getting together somehow (besides the Art of 
> Management conference) strikes me as something we should be doing.
>
> Well, enough enough! Let me know about the blog stuff. If it's mine, 
> I'll try to find out how to delete it. D
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: Jürgen Bergmann [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 3:48 PM
> To: Daved Barry
> Subject: homepage aacorn
>
> Hi Daved,
>
> it's long time that we hadn't contact!
>
> I had some good projects and couldnt
>
> go on with my idea of the Forum.
>
> And acutally I'm not sure
>
> if this is the right way
>
> to achiev the goal I will meet.
>
> I still follow the discussions and informations of AACORN
>
> with much interesset.
>
> But there is not really stuff where I could participate.
>
> Therefore I thought, the discussions take place on the homepage
>
> or on the blog.
>
> I was really disappointed that there is none.
>
> Nearly no acitivity since long time
>
> and no actualisation of the informations.
>
> The blog is full of hundrets of Spam messages.
>
> This is a very bad sign
>
> and it is not serious and not professional.
> I recommended the site to some other persons
>
> recently. But in the actual state this is will
>
> have more negative effects as positivs.
>
> I know that it is much work,
>
> (for John und Ross?),
>
> to be always acutal but it would be better
>
> to close the site as to give a negative image
>
> of the "creative, scientifique, professional"
>
> aacorn network.
>
> It's only a recommendation.
>
> Perhaps we could open the side to everybody
>
> (as wikipedia, wordpress, and so on: the spririt of web 2.0)
>
> so that everybody who has
>
> the password, can contribute to
>
> actualise, extend, enhance, profilise, etc.
>
> the site in the easiest way possible.
>
> It could be the crowing collective platform
>
> of know how, research and a good
>
> representation of the network.
>
> Actually it's everything but that!
>
> But it takes also time and energy
>
> to conceive, performe and realise
>
> such a platform.
>
> The acutal blog has already it's
>
> fundament for such a platform.
>
> It should only be more eassier
>
> for everybody to access and contribute.
>
> This can be a project
>
> which could be financially supported
>
> by some funds or institutions.
>
> Voila mes ideas.
>
> Hope you are will!
>
> Jürgen
>
> P.S.: I'm not sure to whom I should
>
> adress this mail. So I thought on you.
>