How about poems in invisible ink--add the appropriate liquid, and...

Or am I being inappropriate.

Mark

At 02:26 PM 10/11/2007, you wrote:
>Of course this concept could be spread (may I be so bold??) wider using CVM'
>condom vending machine with a nice poem printed on each condom sold -and the
>chance of special flavours -ribbing and suchlike
>Patrick suggestion officer
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Poetryetc: poetry and poetics [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
>Behalf Of RUPERT MALLIN
>Sent: 11 October 2007 17:57
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Publication
>
>Mark
>
>You make some very pertinent points here. I'm not a businessman nor an
>academic but need to survive or I go back on the dole in the UK.
>
>My/our turn to the Poetry Vending Machine (PVM) is in large part a search
>for an alternative to accepted forms of publishing. PVMs themselves won't
>provide a living. At best, after taking out discounts/commission, material
>costs and all, poet/artist is going to be lucky to realise £1 from each box
>vended. Vending via old cig machines carries a further problem: boxes have
>to be vended with coins, the change in ones pocket, so we can't expect
>punters to carry more than £5 in coins. We could charge a lot more if we
>vended big name artists and poets but then we'd be denying ourselves. Yes,
>we'd like to 'guest' big names but the excitement of the PVM lies beyond.
>
> From all the pilots we've done the PVM actually implores readings, launches,
>
>exhibitions and a range of spin offs. Novelty requires this external focus.
>Young people are really into PVM boxes because they're like a quirky gift.
>Often, where vended, an opened box sits on a table and discussion ensues.
>Thereby, the machine itself kind of attracts involvement.
>
>The spin offs - art multiples - can make money for the artists and poets
>involved. This isn't selling out for we'd not criticise a painter for
>selling her/his work for £500 a throw.
>
>What we're doing doesn't deny traditional book/let publication but enhances
>it. Open up a box and find a poem you love, you're going to want the poet's
>book!
>
>Of course, we've had no funding for our Poetry Vending Machines but are now
>going full-hog for funding because the PVMs do best with non-poet audiences.
>
>What I love about the PVM concept is that it's so physical (lugging the
>machines around is back breaking). Image-Text-Image (you'll find link to
>them on our website) received funding for an on-line poetry jukebox. Great
>idea! But as soon as funded - nothing! A fossil within 18 months! This kind
>of cynical approach to both audience and funding is not only the worst of
>self-promotion, it does nothing to build interactive audiences for the
>future. Young people have a far more concrete relationship to the internet
>than us oldies, in my view. MySpace Music isn't a gramophone equivalent but
>a means to bring people to gigs while showcasing their work.
>
>More is possible.
>
>Rupert
>
>www.inprintartsandpoetry.co.uk
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mark Weiss" <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 4:48 PM
>Subject: Re: Publication
>
>
> > For those who don't run presses, here's a quick lesson in economics:
> >
> > In the US at any rate to receive grants large enough to pay for the
> > considerable time spent satisfying the application requirements a press
> > has to produce a large volume of new titles every year, which means that
> > running it is a fulltime job, which means that salaries are involved, at
> > least for the press' owner.
> >
> > The vicious circle: no small press can afford to pay salaries unless it
> > receives grants.
> >
> > Here's why. If I market a book at $10, $1 (whether in cash or books) goes
> > to the writer, $2 to the printer (less with greater volume, but then
> > there's storage to pay and a lot of unsold books), $4 to retailers,
> > between $6.00 and $7.50 if sold to a distributor. Which leaves $3 if sold
> > to a bookstore (or the author--after his free copies I give a 40%
> > discount, which is pretty standard), at best $1 if sold to a distributor.
> > Out of that pittance comes all other expenses--the free copies that go to
> > critics, libraries of record, friends of the press, etc., any outside
> > services like designers (I design all of Junction's books--it's fun, but
> > also I don't get paid), storage, advertizing, damaged return copies, etc.
> > If I discount to list members I wind up with $5, if I sell a copy at cover
>
> > price ( not many of those) $7.
> >
> > The bookstore that gets $4, but only when the book sells, has to pay rent
> > and utilities and usually two salaries (for independent stores), plus the
> > usual business costs for book keeping, licensing, insurance. The
> > distributor sells either to libraries, which usually want a discount, or
> > to bookstores at a 40% discount. In the latter case the distributor makes
> > $2-$3.50, but his expenses are mammoth--warehouses, book keeping, large
> > staff, etc. Only the largest distributors and those, like SPD (the only
> > one, I think) that receive outside funding, have been able to survive.
> >
> > Bottom line, it's pennies on each book. Even the big web sellers, like
> > Amazon, can only survive on large sales volume.
> >
> > The situation outside the US is often better. Every country in Latin
> > America, for instance, supports book production and sale at every stage of
>
> > the process. The result: lots of books, though the distribution often
> > sucks.
> >
> > My goal as a businessman, like that of most small press publishers, is to
> > get back what it costs me (in money, not in time), or close to it, so that
>
> > I can keep publishing books.
> >
> > Which is to say, given the economics, books are very cheap at the price.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> >
> > At 11:01 AM 10/11/2007, you wrote:
> >>Mark wrote:
> >>
> >> > Here's a hint, with a hint of sadness. Readings in non-poetry
> >> > environments tend to sell more books. A reading for a book club at a
> >> > senior center, for instance, will sell more books than a reading in a
> >> > series attended mostly by poets. Poets as a rule resist buying books,
> >> > maybe because they're a bit overwhelmed by the quantity, but also I
> >> > suspect because they expect to be given books.
> >>
> >>Two other factors: one, there are (paradoxically) a lot of poetry books to
> >>choose from, and two (concomitantly) poets are frequently among the least
> >>wealthy of arts enthusiasts.
> >>
> >>P
> >
>
>
>--
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>10:24