You are damn' right, Kasper, I am 3 times as old as you (so what?) -- but I
don't see that because any word has been taken over by the younger
generation in an extended meaning, the original meaning sould instantly be
nullified. What bothered me was your statement that the 'dirty' meaning of
pussy was its *real meaning. As presumably with the catkins usage, it's
surely metaphorical, and I've have have thought far more common in American
English than British, to judge from my reading.
The really interesting question this is all skirting around is what counts
as 'real' meaning, when so many words are shifting in application, depending
at least in part upon who's applying them. I mean, should we bear root
meanings in mind, or the one(s) Shakespeare used, or polite usage a
generation ago, or current slang? I would like to have all of these open to
me.
joanna
----- Original Message -----
From: "kasper salonen" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 6:49 AM
Subject: Re: Snap, 26 September 07 : Rite of Spring
printed proof, certainly not. and I doubt whether even corpora would
reveal my take to be true. but it's my intuition as a native language
user, and as a representative of a younger generation than I'd assume
your 'control group' comes from. :) in the case of the catkin, I can
understand if the word is still in frequent use because it's a name of
a plant or the part of a plant, I believe that biological names are
slower to fade out because so many are rooted in colloquial & regional
variants that are specialised in a way.
ask anyone under 25 what the first thing is that comes ot their heads
when you say the word 'pussy'. many would definitely say 'pussycat',
but I think a lot of language users would feel that the description
you gave of a catkin, 'very soft and silky', can be used for something
only slightly more controversial.
I'll ruminate on the finnish word, get back to you :)
KS
On 27/09/2007, Joanna Boulter <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Not wanting to harp on here, but I know many, many people who use the word
> pussy to refer to cats and catkins, in fact far more than use it in this
> other sense. I very much doubt that the word has become, as you say, 'out
> of
> date', and I would certainly take issue with you or anyone who said that
> 'the word's real reference and context' was the female genitalia. Can you
> cite actual printed proof of this? If so, I'd be glad to know of it.
>
> joanna
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "kasper salonen" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 10:24 PM
> Subject: Re: Snap, 26 September 07 : Rite of Spring
>
>
> yes, don't know why I said tree instead of catkin. I can't believe I
> don't remember what it's called in finnish, but I've picked them on
> many an easter too.
>
> and joanna, I think it's only positive that 'pussy' can only be used
> in a dirty context now -- to use it any other way (e.g. in
> 'pussywillow' or to refer to a cat) would just highlight how out of
> date the word has become, and draw attention away from the word's real
> reference & context.
>
> KS
>
> On 26/09/2007, Joanna Boulter <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > No, no, Kasper, it's what the catkins are called -- pussy-willows,
> > pussy-palms. The catkins look like a cat's folded paw, very soft and
> > silky.
> > I used to pick stems of it with my grandmother as a very small child
> > (help!
> > *how long ago?) to decorate the church for Palm Sunday, and I can't have
> > been the only one of us who used to do this.
> >
> > joanna
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "kasper salonen" <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 8:02 AM
> > Subject: Re: Snap, 26 September 07 : Rite of Spring
> >
> >
> > I'm with P on this one, that word is so distracting. even though
> > that's the tree's name, I'd be more careful than this about using the
> > word. someone stoned enough might get the image of a tree with vaginas
> > hanging off it like apples!!
> >
> > the poem is quaint, & nice, & plain. pretty.
> >
> > KS
> >
> > On 26/09/2007, Max Richards <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > Rite of Spring
> > >
> > >
> > > At a small bridge in the Warrandyte road
> > > the creek in a culvert passes under
> > > on its way to the Yarra,
> > >
> > > Andersons Creek no less,
> > > where gold was found just before
> > > the great Ballarat gold rush.
> > >
> > > Warrandytešs rush was lesser.
> > > Now as they say, therešs just
> > > the annual gold of the wattles.
> > >
> > > Thatšs early spring, September,
> > > when I always watch as well
> > > for the rebirth of the willows,
> > >
> > > roadside, creekside, riverside,
> > > freshest green on the Weeping ones,
> > > silver velvet catkins on the Pussies.*
> > >
> > > Great to get there in time with secateurs
> > > and carry home long fronds for the house,
> > > but easy to be too late, and find
> > >
> > > the pussies opened, yellow with their pollen,
> > > less fitted for a long spell in a tall vase.
> > > But surprise: this week I made it,
> > >
> > > my eye caught by fresh willows
> > > not far from home, in Templestowe
> > > where another modest creek seeks the Yarra.
> > >
> > > Wife and dog wait in the car, I tiptoe
> > > through lank grass, lean over a wire fence,
> > > and snip enough fronds to make an armful,
> > >
> > > now a strong display at home.
> > > Where folk look, and guess, wrongly,
> > > as if no-one any more knows pussy willow.
> > >
> > > 26 September 2007
> > >
> > > Max Richards
> > > Doncaster, Victoria
> > >
> > > *From a website:
> > > Pussy willows are dioecious.
> > > There are male pussy willow trees and female pussy willow trees.
> > > The buds, or catkins, on the male pussy willow trees look different
> > > from
> > > those on the females.
> > > The male catkins are showier, and it is the branches of the male trees
> > > that
> > > we seek for their "pussy willows."
> > > The catkins of males yield numerous tiny staminate flowers later in
> > > spring.
> > > From the decorator's perspective, it is at this point that the bouquet
> > > has
> > > "gone by."
> > > Likewise, the female catkins will bear pistillate flowers.
> > >
> >
>
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