Yes, the stress in the Ister Bank seems meant for the first syllable of "Lanquet"--as the iambs pound pretty hard. Is this overt rhythmical beat meant to complement the poem's archaic style? I think so. It's an "old" song--from Philisides's past (the past before Mira), and it's an "old" song because of its reliance on Languet's "old true tales," his histories. And it's possible to wonder, too, if it's "old" because it's an allegory--in Sidney's terms, an old fashioned fictional mode useful for teaching moral lessons to children (e.g. the Camerarius translation of Aesop) or what we might call "kiddie lit."
Just to add a thought or two to the conversation.
Rob Stillman
________________________________
From: Sidney-Spenser Discussion List on behalf of Arlen Nydam
Sent: Wed 9/26/2007 9:57 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Pronunciation questions: L'Isle and Languet
Roger and Anne: helpful and fascinating replies. Thank you! Roger: I have no experience either with lisle stockings or with Tate and Lyle . . . blame my California upbringing. But I do understand from the Y in Tate and Lyle that L'Isle is not pronounced like Lille. Interesting too that the OED says that Lisle is the older form of the town name Lille.
Another question about old Hubert. If we today pronounce Languet with the stress on the second syllable, is this also how it should sound when we read "On Ister bank" aloud?
"The songe I sange old Lanquet had me taught,
Lanquet, the shepheard best swift Ister knewe," etc. (Feuillerat ed.)
What's with the Q replacing the G? and should we stress the syllables the same in both lines? If so, I'm pulled toward stressing the first syllable in the name in these lines. Is there any "rustic" speech at work here, since this is sung by a shepherd?
--Arlen Nydam
On 9/25/07, anne prescott <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Alanus was from what we *now* call Lille, in what was not yet France,
so I assume that in his own day he'd be pronounced the same as the
city, although some names preserve older pronunciations. Of course
Alanus himself lived before shifts in European and esp. English
pronunciation (it's disorienting to remember that François I and his
language (français) were, I gather, both pronounced something like
"Frahnsway" in his own day, and that Montaigne wrote about his moi--
his "mway.". I've seen Blois spelled "Blee" in English dispatches
(it was in Blee that I--and the rest of a conference, including
Roger--was told about the old pronunciation of Blois). So we have the
modern pronunciation of Lille (Leel, no?) but also the Renaissance
and Medieval ones, which I don't know. Then there's English
pronunciation of foreign words, as in the English doughboys' famous
pronunciation of Ypres as Wipers. I wouldn't trust Spenser to
pronounce French the way the French did in any case. I wonder, but
have never checked, how Tudor travelers and diplomats spelled the
(not yet) French city. I Does the modern pronunciation of "Lisle"
represent an older pronunciation or is it meant to go with "isle" as
in "little island"? If "Isle," then wouldn't it have been "uh-eel"--I
forget the IPA but basically schwa before "i"? That's how I heard a
recording of John of Gaunt's speech on "this blessed uh-eel" instead
of our modern "ah-eel." Deep waters. Anne P.
On Sep 25, 2007, at 8:12 PM, [log in to unmask] wrote:
> Roger and all --
>
> So how about "that Alane," to whom Spenser refers somewhat
> cryptically in the Mutability Cantos? The spelling "de Lille"
> suggests a different pronunciation -- but of course that spelling
> may not have been current in Tudor times, or even earlier.
>
> Jon Q.
>
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: Roger Kuin < [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> >
>>
>> L'Isle is pronounced 'lisle' as in 'lisle stockings'. (Or 'Lyle' as
>> in 'Tate and Lyle'.)
>>
>> Languet is pronounced 'Long-gay' for non-French-speakers, but with
>> the accent on the second, not the first, syllable, and with the 'gay'
>> much shorter than English gaiety: more like 'get' without the 't'.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Roger Kuin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 25-Sep-07, at 11:12 PM, Arlen Nydam wrote:
>>
>>> Dear list members,
>>>
>>> Is there a single accepted and proper way to pronounce these names?
>>>
>>> I understand that L'Isle, at least in its "Lisle Letters" form,
>>> rhymes with aisle. But wonder whether it ever rhymes with "eel."
>>>
>>> I've heard four or five different pronunciations of Languet,
>>> ranging from Long-gay to Lank-it.
>>>
>>> Many thanks,
>>> Arlen Nydam
|