I don't see why I'm out of line. It was a question, even without the
question mark. I've read a lot of your opinions and poetry on this
forum, I was following closely your arguments. I guess that counts as
knowledge.
Roger
On 8/24/07, kasper salonen <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> you may have a point with Thomas' faults. though I'll take them just
> for his "rare poetic mind". does anybody seriously want to read a
> perfect poet?
>
> "Maybe it is
> you, Kasper, who is trying to hide from modernity."
>
> I don't know what you mean by that & I find it a weird statement in
> light of the fact that you have no knowledge of or insight into my
> work. of course, if you mean in more general terms than those of
> poetry, you're equally out of line but may be hitting on something --
> I prefer to look back to the traditions of modernism & imagism & even,
> to an extent, romanticism rather than get attached to the ultramodern
> vein I've seen in current 'cutting edge'-like poetry magazines:
> hyperminimalism, post-postmodernism, coding, digital poetry, &c. a lot
> of it is entertaining*, imaginative**, analytic, witty***, and
> extremely innovative -- but seldom engaging. not to me. maybe I'm in a
> stage of some (rudimentary?) kind. maybe I'll be straightened out yet.
> I suppose I'm too much of an asethete at this point to really enable
> myself to appreciate poetry fused with intellectualism.
>
>
>
> from "Tuli&Savu" 2/2007
>
> *
> here it comes:
> MINIMALISM
> there it went
>
> **
> t rain s top spar row
> (Leroy Gorman)
>
> ***
> galaxyz
> (Ed Conti)
>
>
> KS
>
> On 24/08/07, Roger Day <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > My grandparents behaved as if they had stepped out of the 18th
> > century. This is isn't a derogatory statement, for I loved them
> > dearly. However it appears to me now that they did not have much truck
> > with modernity beyond domestic conveniences. The decline of the
> > British Empire, the rise of Evolution theory, the decline of the
> > church. Post-colonialism, the bomb. Feminism. Quantum theory.
> > Relativity. Genocides. Even men landing on the moon did not figure
> > much on their radar. The bible and prayer to them was as "real" as
> > anything life could offer. They believed in the bible as a series of
> > literal facts.
> >
> > I was wrong about Dylan Thomas, who wrote much of his best stuff in
> > his early years and spent the rest of his life trying to get back to
> > that state. So, it seems to me that much of his stuff is written from
> > a small town in provincial South Wales, between the wars, almost
> > immune to history. Pretty much like my grandparents. A boy in a
> > bubble, whose reading consisted mostly of Shakespeare and the Bible
> > and he regurgitated/transformed these texts through a rare poetic mind
> > and a Welsh syntax in isolation. It looks nice, sounds pretty, but it
> > has it's price and associations, and I think it is always wise to be
> > aware of what they are. To me most of his poetry - with the notable
> > exception of the one quoted by Jon - seems to be written in a bubble,
> > looking ever inward at the metaphysical self, never outwards. Never
> > seeing things as they are, played upon the blue guitar. Maybe it is
> > you, Kasper, who is trying to hide from modernity.
> >
> > The apocalyptic tag attached to Dylan Thomas is, I think, misleading;
> > one assoiciates it with the various apocalyptic things happening at
> > the time. I think this is accidental. He reminds me of a painter
> > called John Martin who painted scenes from the christian Bible - not
> > the cutesy ones of Mary & Joseph - but the earth-shattering upheavals
> > of the heavens that the old testaments whang on about at length. These
> > scenes fit an era of apocalypses yet he was painting in the early 19th
> > century, a time of upheaval to be sure, but nothing like this
> > http://www.tate.org.uk/servlet/ViewWork?workid=9310&roomid=1384,
> > surely. I like Martin's paintings, but a better marraige of symbols
> > and time would be the dutch painters who painted the plagues as hell
> > on earth.
> >
> > Roger
> >
> > On 8/23/07, kasper salonen <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > yes but why should it be an exclusive, unfaltering ideology to stay
> > > 'with the times', if what the tonally archaic has to offer amazes as
> > > much as Thomas?
> > >
> > > KS
> > >
> > > On 23/08/07, Roger Day <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > > Still, definitely a retreat from modernity.
> > > >
> > > > Roger
> > > >
> > > > On 8/23/07, kasper salonen <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > > > ... he'd consider IT less ...
> > > > >
> > > > > On 23/08/07, kasper salonen <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > > > > I think he'd consider less a retreat from life & more a delving,
> > > > > > diving into life at its most metaphysical. no less 'real', he & some
> > > > > > would feel, than any hunchback in the park
> > > > > >
> > > > > > KS
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 22/08/07, Roger Day <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > > > > > I actually love the lyricism and the way he uses language. It sings to
> > > > > > > me as no other poetry, and it's the archaism, the tone and his word
> > > > > > > usage that does this to me, but I cannot hide from the fact that the
> > > > > > > content is almost a full scale retreat from modernity, from life.
> > > > > > > Which I suppose is one way of dealing with the violence of his time.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Roger
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 8/22/07, kasper salonen <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > > > > > > I don't mind the hint of archaism. it's still fresh & attacking &
> > > > > > > > rumbling & wonderful to me. if being 'modern' means relinquishing the
> > > > > > > > kind of tone possible with Dylan's type oflanguage, I don't think I
> > > > > > > > care to be modern. at least not all the time
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > KS
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On 21/08/07, Roger Day <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > If you want to stay away from the 20th century, yeah, Dylan's yr man.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Roger
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On 8/21/07, kasper salonen <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > another utterly humbling place to go for language recycled & built
> > > > > > > > > > into visions is Dylan Thomas
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > KS
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On 20/08/07, Douglas Barbour <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > Intriguing take, Tad. bpNichol once made the same point, saying, if
> > > > > > > > > > > your nouns & verbs need support, they're not doing the proper work, or
> > > > > > > > > > > words to that effect.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I found the range of poets you've written about intriguing, wide, &
> > > > > > > > > > > often opposing....
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Doug
> > > > > > > > > > > On 19-Aug-07, at 12:06 PM, TheOldMole wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > And you may want to start rethinking if your poem starts to be
> > > > > > > > > > > > modifier-driven. I've actually written something on this, which you
> > > > > > > > > > > > may find totally useless, but it's on my website at
> > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/essays.html under "Tired Words -
> > > > > > > > > > > > Working Words."
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Douglas Barbour
> > > > > > > > > > > 11655 - 72 Avenue NW
> > > > > > > > > > > Edmonton Ab T6G 0B9
> > > > > > > > > > > (780) 436 3320
> > > > > > > > > > > http://www.ualberta.ca/~dbarbour/
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Latest book: Continuations (with Sheila E Murphy)
> > > > > > > > > > > http://www.uap.ualberta.ca/UAP.asp?LID=41&bookID=664
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Every time Dick Cheney smiles
> > > > > > > > > > > an angel in heaven
> > > > > > > > > > > gets waterboarded.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Jon Stewart
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
> > > > > > > > > "In peace, sons bury their fathers. In war, fathers bury their sons."
> > > > > > > > > Roman Proverb
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
> > > > > > > "In peace, sons bury their fathers. In war, fathers bury their sons."
> > > > > > > Roman Proverb
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
> > > > "In peace, sons bury their fathers. In war, fathers bury their sons."
> > > > Roman Proverb
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
> > "In peace, sons bury their fathers. In war, fathers bury their sons."
> > Roman Proverb
> >
>
--
My Stuff: http://www.badstep.net/
"In peace, sons bury their fathers. In war, fathers bury their sons."
Roman Proverb
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