A River
Soundlessly beneath my feet:
its subterranean flow.
A deeper understanding
washes to origins.
Always out of reach.
Your ear attune while
mine strains
to hear the echoing
call to silence;
the clarity of unknowing.
Andrew J. Browne
> Dear Jane,
>
> Yes, in line with list policy Desmond has been suspended for a week.
> Geraldine has not been suspended; I was hoping to talk to Ian before
> taking
> further action. Thank you for clarifying things. I don't think it's a
> matter that should have been posted to the list in the first place, but as
> it was, I can understand your wish to clarify things.
>
> A couple of people objected to my apologies to you for having to read
> personal abuse on this list. As co-manager of the list, I would apologise
> to anyone assaulted in that way. Most people reading abusive posts might
> just stop, and save themselves. If the post is directed at you, it's
> harder. British & Irish Poets is an open list; some lists, such as
> Poetics,
> are no longer open; every post is screened before publication. As long as
> British & Irish Poets is open, there is a risk of reading abusive, and
> personally abusive, material. Again, I'm sorry, not just as co-manager,
> but
> as a fellow member. If anyone has a problem with that, I'm sorry, but
> these
> are my responses.
>
> I think abusive posts, to the list and backchannel, are the hardest part
> of
> co-managing a list. I am not a mistress of etiquette nor even a very
> social
> animal. The only language I talk with any degree of fluency is poetry.
> For
> that reason I put out a call for poems: preferably short and preferably
> requiring no response. Part of my reason is selfish: I hope to be able to
> post a few lines myself, from the stuff of my own daily life, and in this
> way meet my desire to participate in list conversation in a way that I
> understand, and which energizes me.
>
> Mairead
>
> On 8/27/07, Jane Holland' <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> I have refrained from commenting so far on this furore. But I do find it
>> odd that no one but Mairead has chosen to comment on the
>> inappropriateness
>> of some of the insults aimed in my direction recently, so perhaps it's
>> time
>> I explained what has actually happened here.
>>
>> Geraldine sent an 'open' message of serious unpleasantness to me via BIP
>> after I had commented in another place on the lack of poetry-related
>> emails
>> on this list, citing her recent communiques on teen gun crime. There was
>> no
>> quotation from her emails or other specific details that might have
>> contravened any copyright, it was merely a general comment that I made
>> about
>> BIP on an entirely separate poetry forum.
>>
>> I can't see how her action could be defended as an appropriate or
>> proportionate response to what was essentially a mild passing comment.
>> Nor
>> do I understand why some others here, Desmond in particular, whose
>> comments
>> about me were vile and plainly libellous, have seen fit to attack me as
>> well. And as I understand it, Geraldine has not been suspended but has
>> chosen not to continue using the list. But perhaps Mairead could clear
>> that
>> point up?
>>
>> Several of the more unpleasant comments made by Geraldine in her open
>> 'Message to Jane Holland' email were entirely untrue and based on errors
>> she
>> had made. She has accepted that now in a personal email to me, following
>> private correspondence between us, though she has not seen fit to
>> apologise
>> for those insinuations nor has any retraction appeared on this list. I
>> think
>> it should be made public that she had some of her facts plain wrong, in
>> particular the idea that she was 'not allowed' to join the forum in
>> order to
>> respond to my comment there - which would have been the appropriate
>> place
>> for her message.
>>
>> I have since invited Geraldine to join the forum several times, and even
>> explained in detail how the registration system works, but so far she
>> has
>> not chosen to take me up on the offer. Just to clarify, I am perfectly
>> within my rights to discuss the existence of this list outside the list
>> and
>> to comment on its workings in a journalistic fashion. No quotation or
>> reference to specific content took place in my forum post. Nothing
>> 'unfair'
>> to Geraldine has occurred here, except that she hugely over-reacted and
>> has
>> left me looking like the villain of the piece. Which I am not.
>>
>> With my best regards, Jane Holland
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [log in to unmask] wrote:
>> > I don't find this poem particularly exciting. I am very sorry for
>> Geraldine
>> > and for Roger Collett who had to get these words out to make himself
>> > understood.
>> > A good reading was Joshua Stanley's ebook, recommended. And
>> congratulations
>> > for his work.
>> >
>> > On 8/27/07, Stephen Philip Pain <[log in to unmask] > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > "Going to the Dogs"
>> > >
>> > > and the collection is every
>> > >
>> > > two weeks, so the rats and
>> > >
>> > > roaches collect
>> > >
>> > > and the drop is every
>> > >
>> > > week, so the boys and
>> > >
>> > > girls drop
>> > >
>> > > and the country cries
>> > >
>> > > every day
>> > >
>> > > and so cry
>> > >
>> > > so drop
>> > >
>> > > so collect
>> > >
>> > > so easily
>> > >
>> > > do we
>> > >
>> > > forget to do
>> > >
>> > > gone to the dogs
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ------------------------------
>> > > *Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com*
>> > > The most personalized portal on the Web!
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>>
>> [log in to unmask] wrote:
>> > I don't find this poem particularly exciting. I am very sorry for
>> Geraldine
>> > and for Roger Collett who had to get these words out to make himself
>> > understood.
>> > A good reading was Joshua Stanley's ebook, recommended. And
>> congratulations
>> > for his work.
>> >
>> > On 8/27/07, Stephen Philip Pain <[log in to unmask] > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > "Going to the Dogs"
>> > >
>> > > and the collection is every
>> > >
>> > > two weeks, so the rats and
>> > >
>> > > roaches collect
>> > >
>> > > and the drop is every
>> > >
>> > > week, so the boys and
>> > >
>> > > girls drop
>> > >
>> > > and the country cries
>> > >
>> > > every day
>> > >
>> > > and so cry
>> > >
>> > > so drop
>> > >
>> > > so collect
>> > >
>> > > so easily
>> > >
>> > > do we
>> > >
>> > > forget to do
>> > >
>> > > gone to the dogs
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ------------------------------
>> > > *Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com*
>> > > The most personalized portal on the Web!
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>
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