whose skin needs toughening? your criticism is up for debate as much as
anyone's poem might be... you spit a lot of game up in this piece, so you're
bound to take a few hits, too...
your original comments just weren't constructive...
"this makes no sense to me" - this just says that you stopped working on
it... any two things next to each other make some sense... your
interpretation just shows a lack of creativity and effort... show me how it
works... that's impressive!
"sounds kind of nice but i get nothing out of it" - you're just
contradicting yourself, as Hal said... and it's flip...
in my assessment, you have more qualms with her process of making the poem,
that the poetry is less valid than the other, muse-inspired type, and
wrongly take it out on the author...
your attempt to reiterate your remarks was much better... but then there's
that teenager bit... honestly, is that really useful? or was that a subtle
pun about your age between you and Tina that i missed?
i think i'm defending collage poetry and not what you're mistakenly
suggesting! although, the other's not a bad motto...
anyhow, secret handshake, hugs, kisses and all that...
--
Bob Marcacci
Many wealthy people are little more than janitors of their possessions.
- Frank Lloyd Wright
> From: kasper salonen <[log in to unmask]>
> Reply-To: "Poetryetc: poetry and poetics" <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 11:11:04 +0300
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: edited cut-up
>
> haha. your snide indignation is amusing Bob. who was closer to the
> teenager again?
>
> I figure that a poet, ANY poet, writing work of any kind & posting it
> on a public list can do with comments that range from both the awed &
> impressed to the indifferent or unimpressed. if all a writer got was
> positive feedback (a scenario you seem to be defending with this 'if
> you have nothing positive ot say don't say anything at all' retort)
> they'd never know whether their work could be improved & would never
> progress.
>
> try toughening your skin the tiniest bit Bob, or don't jump to the
> side of recipients of critique who take less offense at an expression
> of dislike than you.
>
> KS
>
> On 01/06/07, Bob Marcacci <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> You don't have to defend your process, Tina. If I die having written one
>> beautifully sounding poem, they can bury me next to you.
>>
>> The comments weren't very impressive although, perhaps, Kasper is closer to
>> teenagers than the rest of us, thus drawing his remarks on his recent
>> history...
>>
>> If it doesn't do anything for you, Kasper, why give wordy evidence of it? If
>> you're trying to bash Tina, take it backchannel...
>>
>> --
>> Bob Marcacci
>>
>> Getting information off the Internet is like taking
>> a drink from a fire hydrant.
>> - Mitch Kapor
>>
>>
>>> From: Tina Bass <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Reply-To: "Poetryetc: poetry and poetics" <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 22:13:07 +0000
>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Subject: Re: edited cut-up
>>>
>>> Kasper,
>>>
>>> I'll be honest here and say that I had no idea what I was doing the first
>>> time that I cut up a magazine to make a poem (um all of about three months
>>> ago now). I have a little bit more of an idea now what I think I might be
>>> doing... !?
>>>
>>> I don't think you are right to say that it is poetry reminiscent of
>>> teenagers. I hope/think that it is more childish than that. At the time of
>>> creating I was very much desk-bound, swamped by boring, repetitive work, and
>>> the cut-ups have been a way of indulging myself in something more physical.
>>> I get to cut AND stick. It's marvellous to touch the letters rather than a
>>> keyboard. I also happen to think that there is more to it than randomness
>>> or childish indulgence. Most of the words are in common usage but would not
>>> be my normal choice. Even if you don't like the poem, something may have
>>> been lifted or jarred from my subconscious that could be useful in the
>>> future. Maybe. It has a purpose and I take all of my writing very
>>> seriously.
>>>
>>> After spending more than a year on this discussion board (beating my
>>> previous record by at least 11 months) I am clear that 'making sense' is a
>>> false idol. If my epitaph is 'made a few nice sounds' that will do nicely
>>> thank you very much.
>>>
>>>
>>> and thanks to everyone else who commented.
>>>
>>>
>>> Patrick - you beautiful man - I will take a look at what you have sent me
>>> tomorrow. I need a good night's sleep to refresh from marking a zillion
>>> exam papers and to get rid of the after-effects of a fairly cheap bottle of
>>> plonk. Ye Gods! did I really drink all of it?
>>>
>>> Tina
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> http://www.fatmandancing.co.uk
>>> http://www.myspace.com/fat_man_dancing
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: kasper salonen <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Reply-To: "Poetryetc: poetry and poetics" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: Re: edited cut-up
>>>> Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 18:02:56 +0300
>>>>
>>>> hoorah for semantics. I didn't mean nice sounds (the sonics are quite
>>>> unremarkable), I just liked the word/image combinations of the second
>>>> stanza somewhat.
>>>> it's just that sounding nice is rarely enough, even if it sounds
>>>> REALLY nice, which this didn't. phrases like "casualties of elegant
>>>> madness" annoy me (not to mention "lines of unlimited want") because
>>>> they don't seem to refer to anything, or refer to something way
>>>> abstract, and sound interesting on one hand but inane on the other. it
>>>> reminds me of the type of poetry teenage writers tend to come up with.
>>>>
>>>> the cutting-up is the basis here, sure. the technique is alien to me
>>>> as an idea (I like to come up with my own words; not to say that
>>>> 'collage' poetry must necessarily be crap), maybe that has something
>>>> to do with it.
>>>>
>>>> KS
>>>>
>>>> On 31/05/07, Halvard Johnson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>> Seems contradictory, KS. You got nice sounds
>>>>> out of it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hal
>>>>>
>>>>> "I would horsewhip you if I had a horse."
>>>>> --Groucho Marx
>>>>>
>>>>> Halvard Johnson
>>>>> ================
>>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
>>>>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
>>>>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
>>>>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org
>>>>>
>>>>> On May 31, 2007, at 1:11 AM, kasper salonen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> this makes no sense to me. sounds kind of nice, but I get nothing
>>>>>> out of it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> KS
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 31/05/07, Tina Bass <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>>> I think I prefer it like this, without the original first line.
>>>>>>> Comments
>>>>>>> welcome. I'm quite tired. I may think differently tomorrow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> lines of unlimited want cross
>>>>>>> casualties of elegant madness
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> we watch for life as never before
>>>>>>> work out distress in golden clover
>>>>>>> treasure our remote-controlled triumph
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>> http://www.fatmandancing.co.uk
>>>>>>> http://www.myspace.com/fat_man_dancing
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
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