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PLAGIARISM  April 2007

PLAGIARISM April 2007

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Subject:

Re: PLAGIARISM Digest - 6 Apr 2007 to 7 Apr 2007 (#2007-30)

From:

George MacDonald Ross <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Plagiarism <[log in to unmask]>, George MacDonald Ross <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 15 Apr 2007 15:09:21 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (857 lines)

Students should be assessed by lecturers who know their students as intimately as possible. I agree, and I am fighting an edict in my own institution that all students' work must be marked anonymously. The reason for this is that the Students Union believes that lecturers can't be trusted to mark their students fairly if they know who they are. It seems that lack of trust bedevils both sides.
 
George.

________________________________

From: Plagiarism on behalf of Duncan Williamson
Sent: Sun 15/04/2007 09:33
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: PLAGIARISM Digest - 6 Apr 2007 to 7 Apr 2007 (#2007-30)


Even more interesting Debbi!
 
I think it will come as no surprise to hear that I think what you have described in your message may be far more valuable than all of these plagiarism conferences and software packages rolled into one.
 
Take things a step furher however; and I appreciate I might be stepping on a few toes here: all teachers in secondary schools now will have been university students at some stage (I can't be far wrong here but am relying on my imperfect memory to tell me when it became an all graduate profession) so isn't it the case that some of their cut and paste mentality must have been absorbed at least in part at their university? Alternatively, passing all of the key stage tests and public examinations may be forcing teachers and pupils to work as arch cut and paste mongers. Alternatively, the internet is seen as the be all and end all and all answers are there.
 
List members are probably aware of the online and other GCSE and Alevels targeted multi media resources on sale these days that are sold as being comprehensive, all you need solutions. 
 
Doesn't this Imperial initiative and my thought process take us right back to the discussion that I think we have already had: individual or small group assessments assessed by lecturers and tutors who know their students as intimately as possible?
 
Duncan Williamson
 

________________________________

From: Boden, Debbi [mailto:[log in to unmask]] 
Sent: 13 April 2007 11:28
Subject: Re: PLAGIARISM Digest - 6 Apr 2007 to 7 Apr 2007 (#2007-30)


Dear All,

At Imperial College London the librarians run sessions on plagiarism and referencing as part of our information literacy (IL) programme, of which ethical use of information is core.  When discussions take place with UGs straight out of school it is obvious that the 'cut and paste' mentality is well established as is using Google as the only source for finding information.  After reading Duncan's email I thought you might be interested in a brief report of a meeting with the DfES and 3 members of the CILIP (Chartered Institute of Librarians and Information Professionals) CSG Information Literacy Group who have the remit of moving the IL agenda forward on behalf of CILIP. 

 

On the 2nd November 2006 a meeting was held, to discuss information literacy and the school curriculum, at the DfES, Sanctuary Buildings in London.  The meeting was co-ordinated by Julie Bramman (Deputy Director - Curriculum, DfES) and was attended by Julie Bramman and Alan Clarke (also Deputy Director - Curriculum, DfES), Mark Orrow-Whiting (Science Curriculum Team, QCA),  Angela Ruggles (Team Leader - Creativitiy and Arts Team, DfES), Colin Seale, (Head of GCSE and A levels and post 14 maths, DfES), Fred Sharrock (National Strategy Policy Team, DfES), Ruth Harrison (The Reading Agency). Jo Webb (CILIP) also attended the meeting.

 

Representing CILIP and the Information Literacy group were Dr. Mark Hepworth (Information Literacy Committee Member; Senior Lecturer, Loughborough University), Debbi Boden (Chair, Information Literacy Committee; Faculty Team Leader , Imperial College London) and Marcus Woolley (Treasurer, Information Literacy Committee; Deputy Director, Bedfordshire University).

 

The objective of the meeting was to persuade the audience that the current school curriculum did not foster information literacy (what the DfES call independent study skills) and that people in Library and Information Science could help educators enable pupils to become information literate.  To achieve this we first asked them to think about their own information literacy.  This proved successful partly because people seldom have the opportunity to think about how they use information and raised awareness of the complexity of the domain as well as the unconscious nature of information literacy.  The presentation went on to give definitions of information literacy, outlined current practice in schools and used data from a number of studies involving pupils in schools that showed how current approaches were not working. For example, how pupils involved in projects did not engage with the process or understand what they were doing, or why, and felt very insecure about the process.  Finally possible changes in the way information literacy (independent study skills) was taught were suggested.

 

This stimulated much discussion and the outcome was that the audience were convinced that we did have something to offer.  This was partly because our suggestions tied in with future planned changes to the curriculum for 2008/9, including the introduction of an extended project.  As a result Julie Bramman agreed to circulate our presentation to other people including the Training Development Agency (TDA).  The implication was that we could get involved in the development of training material for teachers as well as curriculum development.

 

Overall we felt the meeting was a success in that we managed to communicate with high level educational policy makers in government and to demonstrate that our profession had something to offer.

 

Further to these developments, at the last meeting of the CILIP Information Literacy committee (December 1st), it was agreed that we would contact other professional groups who are concerned with information literacy and the school curriculum such as the School Library Association and the Education Libraries Group.  This will help make sure that we are aware of what each of us are doing and enable us to present a common front. This took place in January 2007.  


________________________________

From: Plagiarism on behalf of PLAGIARISM automatic digest system
Sent: Sun 08/04/2007 00:00
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: PLAGIARISM Digest - 6 Apr 2007 to 7 Apr 2007 (#2007-30)



There are 4 messages totalling 772 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. A rather good Guardian article (3)
  2. Scientific Plagiarism

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 7 Apr 2007 09:09:01 +0100
From:    Duncan Williamson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: A rather good Guardian article

That's both an interesting article, Mike; and a good advert for the
plagiarism industry. I am truly asstonished at how these people are so adept
at justifying their nonsense business philosophies and models: we all KNOW
they do it for the money. Morality and prfessionalism are irrelevant in
those cases.

I think it's clear to everyone on this list that I am a plagiarism cynic in
that I believe things like Turnitin and the other supposed solutions are
completely unnecessary. The article did mention, as I have several times,
the need to know one's students sufficiently well to know what is theirs and
what isn't.

The article mentioned the plight of foreign students whose language skills
might not be that good. Really, how come they are getting in then? How come
they aren't taking additional English tuition/ And so on.

I wonder if any plagiarism departments are more profitabily spending their
time looking at library usage by students and their internet histories
rather than the Heath Robinson solutions that we discuss through this list?
After all, how many students buy all the texts required to graduate and how
many of them subscribe to all the journals similarly needed such that they
don't need to attend the University library? Internet access off campus?

As for the toilet, a baby and reading newspaper articles, erm does that lead
to congratulations?

Let me digress for a little by way of justifying my remark earlier that
morality and prfessionalism are irrelevant. I am currently trying to get the
various GCSE and A Level Examination Boards, the QCA and my MP to agree that
chief examiners should not be allowed to run private seminars with the
students whoe work they will be assessing in June or December for private
gain. Such seminars are widely advertised, well attended and cream off huge
amounts of money for this select band of people. The QCA agrees that such
actions are in breach of the rules but the rules come from a voluntary code
so, hey ho, what can they do? For me the plagiarism industry and the chief
examiner industry are reflections of each other.

Can anyone see the POSSIBILITY that students at University need to
plagiarise because their A level experience has been so corrupted that they
arrive knowing so little in spite of the average 95% pass rate this nation
now proudly boasts.

Duncan

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Reddy [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 06 April 2007 10:48
Subject: A rather good Guardian article

This is from a few days ago now, but I just read it in the loo; our third
child arrived on Wednesday evening, after a long labour, so reading
newspapers was low priority.

http://education.guardian.co.uk/egweekly/story/0,,2048266,00.html

Entitled "Their Dark Materials", this piece by Jessica Shepherd and Lucy
Tobin is, in my opinion, a very good template for plagiarism reporting in
the media. It reports facts and allows people to make up their own minds. It
allows essay bankers to make their justifications, but illuminates all sides
of the issue. It, ironically, calls into question the use of essays - one of
those justifications - but shows that these essay banks are, I believe,
being parasitic, rather than engaging in genuine debate about assessment and
offering alternatives. It restored my faith in newspaper coverage of the
issue.

Mike

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change your subscription options, or access list archives,  visit
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/PLAGIARISM.html
*************************************************************************

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------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 7 Apr 2007 10:46:01 +0100
From:    PENELOPE BOOTH <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: A rather good Guardian article

--0-1669196004-1175939161=:14644
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

I read the article earlier in the week and it just depressed me (even more). It's almost as if essay banks and the like are becoming more 'acceptable' by being given space and oxygen. These productions and businesses are just wrong. I found the apparent 'justification' for them and the morality of 'well, we tell them not to submit the essay just as it is' doubtful to say the least, as well as worrying where real learning and study is almost rejected as a mug's game. How can academics be involved at all? They are selling the value of study down the river because they must KNOW what those purchasing essays will do with them.
  
  Having said that, a neighbour of mine who asked what my (postgraduate) son was doing on his MA course, said that researching the Labour party and its relationship with monarchy in the interwar years was 'useless' and a 'waste of time' and he could not see the purpose.
  The person who can say that clearly would not understand the answer. Where the Gradgrind approach to any learning is slipping in by the backdoor you can be sure that it will be followed by purchasing credits towards a degree - and the latter is then seen as employment-related - and ONLY that.
  (Note - the degree(s) have cost the parents, my son has never claimed benefits and his fees are paid courtesy of the Bank of Mum and Dad, like many. He is our responsibility).
  
  I agree with the points about us knowing students better - when I finally got to teach in a university, having first taught in schools and FE colleges, I was surprised at how difficult it was to get to know one's students - there were so many of them and tutorials a bare hour. Preparation for tutorials has (generally) slipped despite our best efforts. I may feel it in my own institution but friends have stories which indicate that other universities are much worse than my own. Students have other responsibilities (they may be carers of various kinds) and they often have jobs. Sadly, academics may be fighting a losing battle to encourage dedication to study in a world of student debt, lack of dedication or wherewithall for study, and the emplyment focus. The latter is not, per se, a bad thing, it's just a poor central focus - more than one student has said to me that they would not wish to become an academic because the hours are long and the pay is poor. I am not sure
 what they are expecting elsewhere.....
  
  Just to say, too, that when I was an assistant/senior/chief - moderator / examiner and the one where the buck stopped, I NEVER ran 'seminars' courses or revision weekends for those taking the GCSE with which I was involved - from 1986-2002. What would they want me to run them for, if not to give away secrets? To me, that would have been just too hard to distinguish from telling those in attendance what was on the paper, and that is simply unprofessional.
  
  End of current rant.
  
  Penny

Duncan Williamson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
  That's both an interesting article, Mike; and a good advert for the
plagiarism industry. I am truly asstonished at how these people are so adept
at justifying their nonsense business philosophies and models: we all KNOW
they do it for the money. Morality and prfessionalism are irrelevant in
those cases.

I think it's clear to everyone on this list that I am a plagiarism cynic in
that I believe things like Turnitin and the other supposed solutions are
completely unnecessary. The article did mention, as I have several times,
the need to know one's students sufficiently well to know what is theirs and
what isn't.

The article mentioned the plight of foreign students whose language skills
might not be that good. Really, how come they are getting in then? How come
they aren't taking additional English tuition/ And so on.

I wonder if any plagiarism departments are more profitabily spending their
time looking at library usage by students and their internet histories
rather than the Heath Robinson solutions that we discuss through this list?
After all, how many students buy all the texts required to graduate and how
many of them subscribe to all the journals similarly needed such that they
don't need to attend the University library? Internet access off campus?

As for the toilet, a baby and reading newspaper articles, erm does that lead
to congratulations?

Let me digress for a little by way of justifying my remark earlier that
morality and prfessionalism are irrelevant. I am currently trying to get the
various GCSE and A Level Examination Boards, the QCA and my MP to agree that
chief examiners should not be allowed to run private seminars with the
students whoe work they will be assessing in June or December for private
gain. Such seminars are widely advertised, well attended and cream off huge
amounts of money for this select band of people. The QCA agrees that such
actions are in breach of the rules but the rules come from a voluntary code
so, hey ho, what can they do? For me the plagiarism industry and the chief
examiner industry are reflections of each other.

Can anyone see the POSSIBILITY that students at University need to
plagiarise because their A level experience has been so corrupted that they
arrive knowing so little in spite of the average 95% pass rate this nation
now proudly boasts.

Duncan

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Reddy [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 06 April 2007 10:48
Subject: A rather good Guardian article

This is from a few days ago now, but I just read it in the loo; our third
child arrived on Wednesday evening, after a long labour, so reading
newspapers was low priority.

http://education.guardian.co.uk/egweekly/story/0,,2048266,00.html

Entitled "Their Dark Materials", this piece by Jessica Shepherd and Lucy
Tobin is, in my opinion, a very good template for plagiarism reporting in
the media. It reports facts and allows people to make up their own minds. It
allows essay bankers to make their justifications, but illuminates all sides
of the issue. It, ironically, calls into question the use of essays - one of
those justifications - but shows that these essay banks are, I believe,
being parasitic, rather than engaging in genuine debate about assessment and
offering alternatives. It restored my faith in newspaper coverage of the
issue.

Mike

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change your subscription options, or access list archives, visit
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*************************************************************************

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--0-1669196004-1175939161=:14644
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

<div>I read the article earlier in the week and it just depressed me (even more). It's almost as if essay banks and the like are becoming more 'acceptable' by being given space and oxygen. These productions and businesses are just wrong. I found the apparent 'justification' for them and the morality of 'well, we tell them not to submit the essay just as it is' doubtful to say the least, as well as worrying where real learning and study is almost rejected as a mug's game. How can academics be involved at all? They are selling the value of study down the river because they must KNOW what those purchasing essays will do with them. </div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>Having said that, a neighbour of mine who asked what my (postgraduate) son was doing on his MA course, said that researching the Labour party and its relationship with monarchy in the interwar years was 'useless' and a 'waste of time' and he could not see the purpose. </div>  <div>The person who can say that clearly
 would not understand the answer. Where the Gradgrind approach to any learning is slipping in by the backdoor you can be sure that it will be followed by purchasing credits towards a degree - and the latter is then seen as employment-related - and ONLY that.</div>  <div>(Note - the degree(s) have cost the parents, my son has never claimed benefits and his fees are paid courtesy of the Bank of Mum and Dad, like many. He is our responsibility).</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>I agree with the points about us knowing students better - when I finally got to teach in a university, having first taught in schools and FE colleges, I was surprised at how difficult it was to get to know one's students - there were so many of them and tutorials a bare hour. Preparation for tutorials has (generally) slipped despite our best efforts. I may feel it in my own institution but friends have stories which indicate that other universities are much worse than my own. Students have other
 responsibilities (they may be carers of various kinds) and they often have jobs. Sadly, academics may be fighting a losing battle to encourage dedication to study in a world of student debt, lack of dedication or wherewithall for study, and the emplyment focus. The latter is not, per se, a bad thing, it's just a poor central focus - more than one student has said to me that they would not wish to become an academic because the hours are long and the pay is poor. I am not sure what they are expecting elsewhere.....</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>Just to say, too, that when I was an assistant/senior/chief - moderator / examiner and the one where the buck stopped, I NEVER ran 'seminars' courses or revision weekends for those taking the GCSE with which I was involved - from 1986-2002. What would they want me to run them for, if not to give away secrets? To me, that would have been just too hard to distinguish from telling those in attendance what was on the paper, and that is
 simply unprofessional.</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>End of current rant.</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>Penny<BR><BR><B><I>Duncan Williamson &lt;[log in to unmask]&gt;</I></B> wrote:</div>  <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">That's both an interesting article, Mike; and a good advert for the<BR>plagiarism industry. I am truly asstonished at how these people are so adept<BR>at justifying their nonsense business philosophies and models: we all KNOW<BR>they do it for the money. Morality and prfessionalism are irrelevant in<BR>those cases.<BR><BR>I think it's clear to everyone on this list that I am a plagiarism cynic in<BR>that I believe things like Turnitin and the other supposed solutions are<BR>completely unnecessary. The article did mention, as I have several times,<BR>the need to know one's students sufficiently well to know what is theirs and<BR>what isn't.<BR><BR>The article mentioned the plight of
 foreign students whose language skills<BR>might not be that good. Really, how come they are getting in then? How come<BR>they aren't taking additional English tuition/ And so on.<BR><BR>I wonder if any plagiarism departments are more profitabily spending their<BR>time looking at library usage by students and their internet histories<BR>rather than the Heath Robinson solutions that we discuss through this list?<BR>After all, how many students buy all the texts required to graduate and how<BR>many of them subscribe to all the journals similarly needed such that they<BR>don't need to attend the University library? Internet access off campus? <BR><BR>As for the toilet, a baby and reading newspaper articles, erm does that lead<BR>to congratulations?<BR><BR>Let me digress for a little by way of justifying my remark earlier that<BR>morality and prfessionalism are irrelevant. I am currently trying to get the<BR>various GCSE and A Level Examination Boards, the QCA and my MP to
 agree that<BR>chief examiners should not be allowed to run private seminars with the<BR>students whoe work they will be assessing in June or December for private<BR>gain. Such seminars are widely advertised, well attended and cream off huge<BR>amounts of money for this select band of people. The QCA agrees that such<BR>actions are in breach of the rules but the rules come from a voluntary code<BR>so, hey ho, what can they do? For me the plagiarism industry and the chief<BR>examiner industry are reflections of each other.<BR><BR>Can anyone see the POSSIBILITY that students at University need to<BR>plagiarise because their A level experience has been so corrupted that they<BR>arrive knowing so little in spite of the average 95% pass rate this nation<BR>now proudly boasts.<BR><BR>Duncan<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: Mike Reddy [mailto:[log in to unmask]] <BR>Sent: 06 April 2007 10:48<BR>Subject: A rather good Guardian article<BR><BR>This is from a few days ago
 now, but I just read it in the loo; our third<BR>child arrived on Wednesday evening, after a long labour, so reading<BR>newspapers was low priority.<BR><BR>http://education.guardian.co.uk/egweekly/story/0,,2048266,00.html<BR><BR>Entitled "Their Dark Materials", this piece by Jessica Shepherd and Lucy<BR>Tobin is, in my opinion, a very good template for plagiarism reporting in<BR>the media. It reports facts and allows people to make up their own minds. It<BR>allows essay bankers to make their justifications, but illuminates all sides<BR>of the issue. It, ironically, calls into question the use of essays - one of<BR>those justifications - but shows that these essay banks are, I believe,<BR>being parasitic, rather than engaging in genuine debate about assessment and<BR>offering alternatives. It restored my faith in newspaper coverage of the<BR>issue.<BR><BR>Mike<BR><BR>*************************************************************************<BR>You are subscribed to the JISC
 Plagiarism mailing list. To Unsubscribe,<BR>change your subscription options, or access list archives, visit<BR>http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/PLAGIARISM.html<BR>*************************************************************************<BR><BR>*************************************************************************<BR>You are subscribed to the JISC Plagiarism mailing list. To Unsubscribe, change<BR>your subscription options, or access list archives, visit<BR>http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/PLAGIARISM.html<BR>*************************************************************************<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
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your subscription options, or access list archives,  visit
<a href="http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/PLAGIARISM.html">http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/PLAGIARISM.html</a>
*************************************************************************
--0-1669196004-1175939161=:14644--

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 7 Apr 2007 11:08:54 +0100
From:    Duncan Williamson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: A rather good Guardian article

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0216_01C77905.21A16090
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        charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Very intresting Penny: I agree with your expression of depression and for
the reasons you gave,

Your final paragraph first: EXACTLY! That may not be what the examiners are
after, giving secrets away, since they are only in it for the money; but the
delegates? It's obvious isn't it? Why, then, will the QCA et al not stop it?
I'm still working on it.

Knowing one's students. That the number of students is increasing is a
factor but between the lecturer and the tutors, personal knowledge is
possible, I pride myself on learning names and use them wherever I can Just
spent a few days running a train the trainers programme for Albania's
largest mobile phone provider and by the end of the first day I had all
names (some unusual and not of the Janet and John variety) learned and being
used by yours truly. Preparation for tutorials has slipped? In my time in a
UK university, the leading member of staff (the lecturer) would provide all
lecture notes etc, all tutorial exercises and notes and solutions ... OK so
one of my colleagues would provide them as I was walking into my tutorial
but I knew the subject so could cope!

There is an alternative here, though, to get back to plagiarism more
directly: if someone isn't good enough then we either lower standards or we
fail the bleeder. I am very task oriented and a student once said to me that
his second year BA Business Studies group appreciated that if every student
fell below the standards I believed the University had set for my module,
then I would fail them all wouldn't I? It's not a problem for me that if all
parties to a contract have done their best but the outcome is not what is
required then something has to give. I work hard, I am task oriented, I am
sympathetic and so on but education really is a two way street.

An anecdote too: I know a world class athlete who is currently going through
her first year at University. She attends all lectures and tutorials and so
on except for a world championship in Durban that took her away for two
weeks; a sports trip to Mexico for a week and the prospect of other trips
around the UK and abroad some of which might lead to further absences. The
point of the story? The ONLY person in the group to which this athlete
belongs who has yet to ask for an extension for submission of course work?
Surprise, surprise, it's the athlete herself. Her average marks to date are
that she's on course for a 2:1.


Duncan

  _____ 

From: PENELOPE BOOTH [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 07 April 2007 10:46
To: Plagiarism; Duncan Williamson
Cc: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: A rather good Guardian article


I read the article earlier in the week and it just depressed me (even more).
It's almost as if essay banks and the like are becoming more 'acceptable' by
being given space and oxygen. These productions and businesses are just
wrong. I found the apparent 'justification' for them and the morality of
'well, we tell them not to submit the essay just as it is' doubtful to say
the least, as well as worrying where real learning and study is almost
rejected as a mug's game. How can academics be involved at all? They are
selling the value of study down the river because they must KNOW what those
purchasing essays will do with them.

Having said that, a neighbour of mine who asked what my (postgraduate) son
was doing on his MA course, said that researching the Labour party and its
relationship with monarchy in the interwar years was 'useless' and a 'waste
of time' and he could not see the purpose.
The person who can say that clearly would not understand the answer. Where
the Gradgrind approach to any learning is slipping in by the backdoor you
can be sure that it will be followed by purchasing credits towards a degree
- and the latter is then seen as employment-related - and ONLY that.
(Note - the degree(s) have cost the parents, my son has never claimed
benefits and his fees are paid courtesy of the Bank of Mum and Dad, like
many. He is our responsibility).

I agree with the points about us knowing students better - when I finally
got to teach in a university, having first taught in schools and FE
colleges, I was surprised at how difficult it was to get to know one's
students - there were so many of them and tutorials a bare hour. Preparation
for tutorials has (generally) slipped despite our best efforts. I may feel
it in my own institution but friends have stories which indicate that other
universities are much worse than my own. Students have other
responsibilities (they may be carers of various kinds) and they often have
jobs. Sadly, academics may be fighting a losing battle to encourage
dedication to study in a world of student debt, lack of dedication or
wherewithall for study, and the emplyment focus. The latter is not, per se,
a bad thing, it's just a poor central focus - more than one student has said
to me that they would not wish to become an academic because the hours are
long and the pay is poor. I am not sure what they are expecting
elsewhere.....

Just to say, too, that when I was an assistant/senior/chief - moderator /
examiner and the one where the buck stopped, I NEVER ran 'seminars' courses
or revision weekends for those taking the GCSE with which I was involved -
from 1986-2002. What would they want me to run them for, if not to give away
secrets? To me, that would have been just too hard to distinguish from
telling those in attendance what was on the paper, and that is simply
unprofessional.

End of current rant.

Penny

Duncan Williamson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

That's both an interesting article, Mike; and a good advert for the
plagiarism industry. I am truly asstonished at how these people are so adept
at justifying their nonsense business philosophies and models: we all KNOW
they do it for the money. Morality and prfessionalism are irrelevant in
those cases.

I think it's clear to everyone on this list that I am a plagiarism cynic in
that I believe things like Turnitin and the other supposed solutions are
completely unnecessary. The article did mention, as I have several times,
the need to know one's students sufficiently well to know what is theirs and
what isn't.

The article mentioned the plight of foreign students whose language skills
might not be that good. Really, how come they are getting in then? How come
they aren't taking additional English tuition/ And so on.

I wonder if any plagiarism departments are more profitabily spending their
time looking at library usage by students and their internet histories
rather than the Heath Robinson solutions that we discuss through this list?
After all, how many students buy all the texts required to graduate and how
many of them subscribe to all the journals similarly needed such that they
don't need to attend the University library? Internet access off campus?

As for the toilet, a baby and reading newspaper articles, erm does that lead
to congratulations?

Let me digress for a little by way of justifying my remark earlier that
morality and prfessionalism are irrelevant. I am currently trying to get the
various GCSE and A Level Examination Boards, the QCA and my MP to agree that
chief examiners should not be allowed to run private seminars with the
students whoe work they will be assessing in June or December for private
gain. Such seminars are widely advertised, well attended and cream off huge
amounts of money for this select band of people. The QCA agrees that such
actions are in breach of the rules but the rules come from a voluntary code
so, hey ho, what can they do? For me the plagiarism industry and the chief
examiner industry are reflections of each other.

Can anyone see the POSSIBILITY that students at University need to
plagiarise because their A level experience has been so corrupted that they
arrive knowing so little in spite of the average 95% pass rate this nation
now proudly boasts.

Duncan

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Reddy [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 06 April 2007 10:48
Subject: A rather good Guardian article

This is from a few days ago now, but I just read it in the loo; our third
child arrived on Wednesday evening, after a long labour, so reading
newspapers was low priority.

http://education.guardian.co.uk/egweekly/story/0,,2048266,00.html

Entitled "Their Dark Materials", this piece by Jessica Shepherd and Lucy
Tobin is, in my opinion, a very good template for plagiarism reporting in
the media. It reports facts and allows people to make up their own minds. It
allows essay bankers to make their justifications, but illuminates all sides
of the issue. It, ironically, calls into question the use of essays - one of
those justifications - but shows that these essay banks are, I believe,
being parasitic, rather than engaging in genuine debate about assessment and
offering alternatives. It restored my faith in newspaper coverage of the
issue.

Mike

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------=_NextPart_000_0216_01C77905.21A16090
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16414" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D828005109-07042007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Very intresting Penny: I agree with your =
expression of=20
depression and for the reasons you gave,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D828005109-07042007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D828005109-07042007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Your final paragraph first: EXACTLY! That may =
not be what=20
the examiners are after, giving secrets away, since they are only in it =
for the=20
money; but the delegates? It's obvious isn't it? Why, then, will the QCA =
et al=20
not stop it? I'm still working on it.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D828005109-07042007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D828005109-07042007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Knowing one's students. That the number of =
students is=20
increasing is a factor but between the lecturer and the tutors, personal =

knowledge is possible, I pride myself on learning names and use them =
wherever I=20
can Just spent a few days running a train the trainers programme=20
for&nbsp;Albania's largest mobile phone provider&nbsp;and by the end of =
the=20
first day I had all names (some unusual and not of the Janet and John =
variety)=20
learned and being used by yours truly. Preparation for tutorials has =
slipped? In=20
my time in a UK university, the leading member of staff (the lecturer) =
would=20
provide all lecture notes etc, all tutorial exercises and notes and =
solutions=20
... OK so one of my colleagues would provide them as I was walking into =
my=20
tutorial but I knew the subject so could cope!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D828005109-07042007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D828005109-07042007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>There is an alternative here, though, to get =
back to=20
plagiarism more directly: if someone isn't good enough then we either =
lower=20
standards or we fail the bleeder. I am very task oriented and a student =
once=20
said to me that his second year BA Business Studies group appreciated =
that if=20
every student fell below the standards I believed the University had set =
for my=20
module, then I would fail them all wouldn't I? It's not a problem for me =
that if=20
all parties to a contract have done their best but the outcome is not =
what is=20
required then something has to give. I work hard, I am task oriented, I =
am=20
sympathetic and so on but education really is a two way=20
street.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D828005109-07042007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D828005109-07042007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>An anecdote too: I know a world class athlete =
who is=20
currently going through her first year at University. She attends all =
lectures=20
and tutorials and so on except for a world championship in Durban that =
took her=20
away for two weeks; a sports trip to Mexico for a week and the prospect =
of other=20
trips around the UK and abroad some of which might lead to further =
absences. The=20
point of the story? The ONLY person in the group to which this athlete =
belongs=20
who has yet to ask for an extension for submission of course work? =
Surprise,=20
surprise, it's the athlete herself. Her average marks to date are that =
she's on=20
course for a 2:1.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D828005109-07042007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D828005109-07042007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN =
class=3D828005109-07042007></SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3D828005109-07042007></SPAN><SPAN class=3D828005109-07042007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Duncan</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> PENELOPE BOOTH=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] <BR><B>Sent:</B> 07 April 2007=20
10:46<BR><B>To:</B> Plagiarism; Duncan Williamson<BR><B>Cc:</B>=20
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: A rather good Guardian =

article<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>I read the article earlier in the week and it just depressed me =
(even=20
more). It's almost as if essay banks and the like are becoming more =
'acceptable'=20
by being given space and oxygen. These productions and businesses are =
just=20
wrong. I found the apparent 'justification' for them and the morality of =
'well,=20
we tell them not to submit the essay just as it is' doubtful to say the =
least,=20
as well as worrying where real learning and study is almost rejected as =
a mug's=20
game. How can academics be involved at all? They are selling the value =
of study=20
down the river because they must KNOW what those purchasing essays will =
do with=20
them. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Having said that, a neighbour of mine who asked what my =
(postgraduate) son=20
was doing on his MA course, said that researching the Labour party and =
its=20
relationship with monarchy in the interwar years was 'useless' and a =
'waste of=20
time' and he could not see the purpose. </DIV>
<DIV>The person who can say that clearly would not understand the =
answer. Where=20
the Gradgrind approach to any learning is slipping in by the backdoor =
you can be=20
sure that it will be followed by purchasing credits towards a degree - =
and the=20
latter is then seen as employment-related - and ONLY that.</DIV>
<DIV>(Note - the degree(s) have cost the parents, my son has never =
claimed=20
benefits and his fees are paid courtesy of the Bank of Mum and Dad, like =
many.=20
He is our responsibility).</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I agree with the points about us knowing students better - when I =
finally=20
got to teach in a university, having first taught in schools and FE =
colleges, I=20
was surprised at how difficult it was to get to know one's students - =
there were=20
so many of them and tutorials a bare hour. Preparation for tutorials has =

(generally) slipped despite our best efforts. I may feel it in my own=20
institution but friends have stories which indicate that other =
universities are=20
much worse than my own. Students have other responsibilities (they may =
be carers=20
of various kinds) and they often have jobs. Sadly, academics may be =
fighting a=20
losing battle to encourage dedication to study in a world of student =
debt, lack=20
of dedication or wherewithall for study, and the emplyment focus. The =
latter is=20
not, per se, a bad thing, it's just a poor central focus - more than one =
student=20
has said to me that they would not wish to become an academic because =
the hours=20
are long and the pay is poor. I am not sure what they are expecting=20
elsewhere.....</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Just to say, too, that when I was an assistant/senior/chief - =
moderator /=20
examiner and the one where the buck stopped, I NEVER ran 'seminars' =
courses or=20
revision weekends for those taking the GCSE with which I was involved - =
from=20
1986-2002. What would they want me to run them for, if not to give away =
secrets?=20
To me, that would have been just too hard to distinguish from telling =
those in=20
attendance what was on the paper, and that is simply =
unprofessional.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>End of current rant.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Penny<BR><BR><B><I>Duncan Williamson =
&lt;[log in to unmask]&gt;</I></B>=20
wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dreplbq=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px =
solid">That's=20
  both an interesting article, Mike; and a good advert for =
the<BR>plagiarism=20
  industry. I am truly asstonished at how these people are so =
adept<BR>at=20
  justifying their nonsense business philosophies and models: we all=20
  KNOW<BR>they do it for the money. Morality and prfessionalism are =
irrelevant=20
  in<BR>those cases.<BR><BR>I think it's clear to everyone on this list =
that I=20
  am a plagiarism cynic in<BR>that I believe things like Turnitin and =
the other=20
  supposed solutions are<BR>completely unnecessary. The article did =
mention, as=20
  I have several times,<BR>the need to know one's students sufficiently =
well to=20
  know what is theirs and<BR>what isn't.<BR><BR>The article mentioned =
the plight=20
  of foreign students whose language skills<BR>might not be that good. =
Really,=20
  how come they are getting in then? How come<BR>they aren't taking =
additional=20
  English tuition/ And so on.<BR><BR>I wonder if any plagiarism =
departments are=20
  more profitabily spending their<BR>time looking at library usage by =
students=20
  and their internet histories<BR>rather than the Heath Robinson =
solutions that=20
  we discuss through this list?<BR>After all, how many students buy all =
the=20
  texts required to graduate and how<BR>many of them subscribe to all =
the=20
  journals similarly needed such that they<BR>don't need to attend the=20
  University library? Internet access off campus? <BR><BR>As for the =
toilet, a=20
  baby and reading newspaper articles, erm does that lead<BR>to=20
  congratulations?<BR><BR>Let me digress for a little by way of =
justifying my=20
  remark earlier that<BR>morality and prfessionalism are irrelevant. I =
am=20
  currently trying to get the<BR>various GCSE and A Level Examination =
Boards,=20
  the QCA and my MP to agree that<BR>chief examiners should not be =
allowed to=20
  run private seminars with the<BR>students whoe work they will be =
assessing in=20
  June or December for private<BR>gain. Such seminars are widely =
advertised,=20
  well attended and cream off huge<BR>amounts of money for this select =
band of=20
  people. The QCA agrees that such<BR>actions are in breach of the rules =
but the=20
  rules come from a voluntary code<BR>so, hey ho, what can they do? For =
me the=20
  plagiarism industry and the chief<BR>examiner industry are reflections =
of each=20
  other.<BR><BR>Can anyone see the POSSIBILITY that students at =
University need=20
  to<BR>plagiarise because their A level experience has been so =
corrupted that=20
  they<BR>arrive knowing so little in spite of the average 95% pass rate =
this=20
  nation<BR>now proudly boasts.<BR><BR>Duncan<BR><BR>-----Original=20
  Message-----<BR>From: Mike Reddy [mailto:[log in to unmask]] <BR>Sent: =
06 April=20
  2007 10:48<BR>Subject: A rather good Guardian article<BR><BR>This is =
from a=20
  few days ago now, but I just read it in the loo; our third<BR>child =
arrived on=20
  Wednesday evening, after a long labour, so reading<BR>newspapers was =
low=20
  =
priority.<BR><BR>http://education.guardian.co.uk/egweekly/story/0,,204826=
6,00.html<BR><BR>Entitled=20
  "Their Dark Materials", this piece by Jessica Shepherd and =
Lucy<BR>Tobin is,=20
  in my opinion, a very good template for plagiarism reporting in<BR>the =
media.=20
  It reports facts and allows people to make up their own minds. =
It<BR>allows=20
  essay bankers to make their justifications, but illuminates all =
sides<BR>of=20
  the issue. It, ironically, calls into question the use of essays - one =

  of<BR>those justifications - but shows that these essay banks are, I=20
  believe,<BR>being parasitic, rather than engaging in genuine debate =
about=20
  assessment and<BR>offering alternatives. It restored my faith in =
newspaper=20
  coverage of=20
  =
the<BR>issue.<BR><BR>Mike<BR><BR>****************************************=
*********************************<BR>You=20
  are subscribed to the JISC Plagiarism mailing list. To =
Unsubscribe,<BR>change=20
  your subscription options, or access list archives,=20
  =
visit<BR>http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/PLAGIARISM.html<BR>*************=
************************************************************<BR><BR>*****=
********************************************************************<BR>Y=
ou=20
  are subscribed to the JISC Plagiarism mailing list. To Unsubscribe,=20
  change<BR>your subscription options, or access list archives,=20
  =
visit<BR>http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/PLAGIARISM.html<BR>*************=
************************************************************<BR></BLOCKQU=
OTE><BR></BODY></HTML>
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------=_NextPart_000_0216_01C77905.21A16090--

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 7 Apr 2007 07:12:10 -0500
From:    "Harry, Bruce E." <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Scientific Plagiarism

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11503-scientists-steal-turns-of-phr=
ase-from-other-papers.html

=20

I hope this link works.  I'd found it earlier this week.

Bruce Harry


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------------------------------

End of PLAGIARISM Digest - 6 Apr 2007 to 7 Apr 2007 (#2007-30)
**************************************************************


************************************************************************* You are subscribed to the JISC Plagiarism mailing list. To Unsubscribe, change your subscription options, or access list archives, visit http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/PLAGIARISM.html ************************************************************************* ************************************************************************* You are subscribed to the JISC Plagiarism mailing list. To Unsubscribe, change your subscription options, or access list archives, visit http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/PLAGIARISM.html ************************************************************************* 

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