Peter
At last, I totally agree with you Peter. This appears to be a fraudulent claim and should be investigated thoroughly. Insurance companies acting on behalf of the company will often set up surveillance in order to mitigate or defend claims.
Lorraine
>
> From: Peter Judge <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: 2007/02/15 Thu PM 03:46:26 GMT
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Sickness absence
>
> Hiya Noushin
>
> I think the point is he has fiddled the system, he knows it, his GP knows, but most importantly his
> employer knows and it is his employers responsibility to deal with it not OH's. You cannot ask for a
> sabatical to set up your own business, get turned down, go on sickness absence leave to suck your
> thumb because you can't reach your dummy and then ask for the same sabatical under the same
> circmstances when you are actually supposed to be physically incapable of working.
>
> That is fraudulent and his employer would be better spending a couple of hundred quid hiring a
> private investigator to prove he is doing this and deal with him via the disciplinary procedures
> rather than the sickness absence procedure. What happened to whistleblowing anyway.
>
> We are very good in OH at doing other people's work for them, in this case line management should
> be more proactive and set an example, I don't doubt that he has already told half the workforce what
> his intentions are anyway.
>
> After all that though my main gripe was doctors being held in some sort of God like status, not to
> be questioned by anyone least of all a NURSE.
>
> Cheers
>
> Pete
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >>> "N. Rostami" <[log in to unmask]> 15/02/2007 12:17 >>>
> Pete,
> I would like to give the benefit of doubt to the GP who has most likely
> based his opinion and advice on the symptoms that this gentleman has
> presented to him. It is possible for such symptoms to have a sudden onset,
> meaning, if he didn't report them at his first visit to his GP, maybe he did
> so at his second visit!
> Do you really think that it is best to spend one's energy trying to prove
> that this gentleman is really only suffering from a fabricated stress or
> would you say that you would look at other avenues and options of resolving
> this for both sides. By the time you set out to witch hunt, it will be six
> months and this gentleman will probably miraculously recover from his
> symptoms and ready to return to work!
> What the employer is suffering from at this point is that it appears to have
> lost face and feels that their authority has been undermined by an employee
> who has been clever in playing the system. Maybe, this can be a lesson for
> future to look closely at people's requests and reasons as to why they can't
> attend work and thus considering policies on sabbaticals. Meanwhile, the
> employer is also likely to be losing valuable time managing this case and
> valuable money paying out for Sick pay, not to mention the OH costs. Also,
> this saga( watched closely by the rest of the workforce) is creating a
> negative impact on the ethos of the work place. Although, there is the other
> matter of the confidentiality of individual cases.i.e. no one else at work
> should be aware of what is really going on with this gentleman!
> The employee has played foul but has found the loophole! However, if given
> the choice he would probably prefer to minimise his liability and any future
> friction with the management and thus he may be willing to sit down and
> discuss the option of the sabbatical as a way out of this mess. In my
> experience, sometimes the management who have passed on these types of
> problems to OH , and whilst the OH is doing their very best to follow the
> right procedures and principles in bringing the employee back to work asap,
> suddenly, out of the blue, they strike a deal with the employee and all
> OH's hard work turns out to be futile...I agree that GPs can be challenged
> but I would chose by battles very carefully as for instance in this case ,
> this employee does not want to return to work yet.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
> Of Peter Judge
> Sent: 15 February 2007 11:21
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Sickness absence
>
> Whooaa Sue
>
> Point 2 - since when was anybody on thin ice for questioning a doctor, NO
> apologies to anyone from
> this profession but they are not gods, do get things wrong, evident in this
> case and it does not
> take another doctor to point this out to them.
>
> Med 3's are opinions and no more than that, anyone can question someones
> opinion, particularly in
> this case as the GP if it is the same one who previously one week before
> declared him fit to work is
> now behaving in a less than ethical manner and the phrase "fraudulent claim"
> springs to mind as does
> aiding and abetting. HR or Line management could happily question the GP
> regarding this med 3, it
> does not have to be the domain of the OH practitioner.
>
> You might wish to get a OHP opinion but it should not be because you feel
> you cannot question
> someones opinion, rather that in this case you do not trust that persons
> opinion as you have very
> good reason to question the ethics and morals of it.
>
> Cheers
>
> Pete
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >>> Sue Morley <[log in to unmask]> 15/02/2007 10:41 >>>
> Difficult situation.
> Few thoughts. 1) What does the companies S/A policy say. 2) Refer to an OHP
> with MFOM. They can
> question a GP cert where as OHA's are on thinner ice. 3) Get personnel/HR
> seek the advice of an
> employment lawyer, he is after all effectively holding the company to ransom
> unless medical opinion
> (MFOM) supports his ill health claims.4) It is bizarre for a GP to sign fit
> one week only to change
> his mind the next, did he perhaps see a different GP in the practice? 4)
> Does the company have a
> flexible working/family friendly policy etc that would cover his request for
> a sabbatical. 5) In my
> experience GP's reports can be notorious for what they don't say (sorry all
> those GP's out there) in
> cases like this. 6) the company does not have to accommodate long term
> sickness absence if this is
> what it turns into, especially in the light of the denied request. Hence the
> need for employment
> legal advice.
> My gut feeling is get a medical opinion from a MFOM it will be worth it in
> the long run and then
> hand back to personnel as it then becomes a management issue.
> Sue
> _____
> From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
> Of Harrison-Stone,
> SueSent: 15 February 2007 09:27To: [log in to unmask]:
> [OCC-HEALTH] Sickness absence
>
> Dear All
>
> One of our engineers requested 6mths sabbatical to get married, do up his
> house ready for his new
> wife AND to set up his own central heating business. He said that if his
> business failed he would
> still have a job to return to after the 6mths. He is well known for running
> his business from work
> booking appts etc for out of work time. Half the factory seems to use his
> services. He was
> disciplined for using company time to arrange appts but that was a year ago
> so from the point of
> moving to the second stage of disciplining that has now lapsed.
>
> His sabbatical request was not granted. A week later he went off sick with
> work related stress.
> At a meeting he said he felt undervalued, tired and had abdominal pain. He
> also said he didn't like
> his Dept. manager but in practise he reported into a line manager and rarely
> had any dealings with
> the Dept. manager. He said that he had said to the L/M a week before he
> went off sick that he was
> stressed but the L/M has no record of that and in fact says the chap had
> asked for more work!
>
> He then sent in another request for sabbatical leave based this time on his
> stress would take
> 4-6mths to recover from as he was so ill. He is not on any treatment for
> anything. He has been
> offered a change of job too. I wrote to his GP with the grudging permission
> of the employee. I
> asked the usual question of the GP but also expressing concern that if he
> was so ill should he have
> treatment, did the GP know about the two requests for sabbaticals and the
> request for more work and
> that he did not report into the manager he allegedly had problems with. I
> also said we would offer
> him a different job and a RTW programme. GP signed him back to work! Great!
> No! The day before he
> was due back to work he went to the GP with stress, abdominal pain and now
> hypertension result
> signed off sick for 2wks on beta blockers. GP says he is stressed. No
> matter what time of day we
> call this man is never at home. Should have been back today but now is
> signed off sick again
> because he had a 'reaction to his medication. Gp's letter did not
> acknowledge any of my concerns
> including whether the tiredness could be due to the fact he works f/t here
> then does out off work
> job repairing central heating. His wedding is now three wks away and he has
> 4wks holiday
> provisionally booked as A/L for that. As he is so well known in the factory
> all the workforce are
> looking to see how long he can stay away!
>
> Any suggestions please?
>
> Sorry about the length of the email!
>
> Sue
>
>
>
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