That's a whole different argument!!
-----Original Message-----
From: Scourfield, Brenda [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Fri 09 February 2007 11:09
To: Gardiner, Lee
Cc: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: What is spam? [was: Spam and email bugs (Lo ng, but interesti
ng . . )]
The law is only any good if it is enforceable.
Double yellow lines, speed limits, tv licence, car insurance, pit bull
terriers........are just a few that come to mind.
Brenda Scourfield
Team Leader
I.T. Division
Pembrokeshire County Council
County Hall
Haverfordwest
SA61 1 TP
Tel 01437 775380
> -----Original Message-----
> From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
> [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Lee Gardiner
> Sent: 09 February 2007 11:02
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: What is spam? [was: Spam and email bugs (Lo ng, but
> interesting . . )]
>
> The Law!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Broom, Doreen
> Sent: Fri 09 February 2007 09:58
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [data-protection] What is spam? [was: Spam and email bugs
> (Long, but interesting . . )]
>
> I agree with you Nick. What's the difference between e-mail and
> writing to companies offering a service. If you wish to take it up,
> you will - if not, the letetr will be binned.
> D
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Nick Landau
> Sent: 09 February 2007 09:51
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: What is spam? [was: Spam and email bugs (Long, but
> interesting . . )]
>
> OK, Tim, this might be your definition.
>
> That has not been my experience - clearly everyone has the right to
> ignore such approaches. I have rarely had a complaint from someone
> working from a company that I have written to in this way - either for
> employment, consultancy work or selling to local authorities or the NHS.
>
> Writing to companies with a cv is an unsolicited application. I have
> had quite a number of invitations for interviews based on such approaches.
> This might be addressed to the named individual in a company which is
> announcing a new development which I feel that I might be able to work on.
>
> I have set up quite a few demos with local authorities - I have never
> had a complaint. They are people responsible for the area of work for
> which the software is intended. They will refer me to a better contact
> if they know one.
>
> I might add that in the latter (marketing) case they rarely obtain
> responses straight from emails - I wouldn't expect it - this is an
> introduction - I then follow this up with a phonecall.
>
> Another example. The local Chamber of Commerce has a directory which
> is searchable on its website. This has names, addresses, phone numbers
> and
> (mostly) email addresses. Writing by email to people who might be
> interested in my services - or might be able to recommend to their
> clients hardly seems a crime.
>
> It is worth pointing out that I am not on a permanent salary and
> therefore I don't have the luxury of receiving a monthly pay cheque.
>
> Nick Landau
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Turner" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 8:54 AM
> Subject: [data-protection] What is spam? [was: Spam and email bugs
> (Long, but interesting . . )]
>
>
> > Here is my definition of spam: "an email I haven't asked for and
> > don't
>
> > want". If a person sends an email to a business offering services or
> > products, with no previous relationship with the business, and no
> > permission to email them, it's spam. It may not be illegal, but it's
> > still spam. It is destined for the bin.
> >
> > The difference between post, phone on one side and electronic means
> > of
>
> > communication on the other comes with the Privacy and Electronic
> > Communications Regulations. The regulations place specific
> > requirements on marketers (which is what you become if you try to
> > actively sell or promote products, services or ideas). A person
> > can't email or text without prior permission (there's the soft
> > opt-in, but it's just too early in the morning for that), but they
> > can phone or write without permission, although they can't phone
> > people on the TPS unless they have specific permission. I know this
> > is a bit of a simplification, but I hope it'll do.
> >
> > The contradiction comes here: according to the Regs, companies or
> > individuals with something to sell can't email me at home without my
> > permission. They do, but that's another story. Companies etc. can
> > email me at work, even without my permission. Phone is the same for
> > home and work, post is the same for home and work, but email isn't.
> > Presumably, the Direct Marketing industry did some frenetic lobbying
> > to win that one. Given how quick one can delete an email, I don't
> > know
>
> > why they bothered.
> > Nevertheless,
> > as far as the regs are concerned, you can send unwanted marketing
> > emails to companies. As it happens, if you send marketing emails to
> > an
>
> > address that looks like mine (i.e. it contains my full name), then I
> > can prevent you from sending them to me under Section 11 of the DPA
> > because you are processing my personal data.
> >
> > But we come back to the beginning: unsolicited often means unwanted,
> > and people tend not to value things that they haven't asked for.
> >
> >
> > Tim Turner
> > Data Protection / FOI Officer
> > Legal and Property Services
> > Wigan Council
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Nick Landau
> > Sent: Thu 08 February 2007 15:53
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [data-protection] Fwd: Re: [data-protection] Spam and
> > email bugs (Long, but interesting . . )
> >
> > OK, would you please define what you mean by "spamming" businesses?
> >
> > How is me emailing businesses that might be interested in my
> > services
> > - I am an individual contractor/service provider - any different
> > from me writing to them or phoning them.
> >
> > I would suggest that the volume is something to do with it.
> >
> > I am an individual not hiding behind any corporation who will
> > respond to every email response that I receive.
> >
> > Is emailing companies or individuals in companies regarding job
> > opportunities spamming - and if you tell me it is then you are
> > having a laugh.
> >
> > Nick Landau
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Roland Perry" <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 2:07 PM
> > Subject: Re: [data-protection] Fwd: Re: [data-protection] Spam and
> > email bugs (Long, but interesting . . )
> >
> >
> >> In message <[log in to unmask]>, at
> >> 12:55:57
>
> >> on Thu, 8 Feb 2007, NICHOLAS LANDAU <[log in to unmask]>
> >> writes
> >>
> >>>I would suggest that anyone that says that any email address with a
> >>>person's name in it - even when contacted to a council or hospital
> >>>email address - is automatically personal information, is not
> >>>living in the real world.
> >>
> >> It's personal information alright, but the circumstances will
> >> determine whether or not it's a correct assumption that an email to
> >> such a person, addressed at a "corporate" domain, is being used in
> >> a B2B
> > context or not.
> >> In some cases it will, in others (see my earlier example) it won't.
> >>
> >> Meanwhile, the fuzzy thinking that spamming businesses is OK,
> >> whereas
>
> >> spamming individuals isn't, is the unfortunate state of the current
> >> EU law. But spam is such a problem within the topic of Internet
> >> Governance, that I think this may change with time.
> >>
> >> One important test, much ignored in current debates, is whether or
> >> not the emails in question are "bulk". Unsolicited *bulk* email is
> >> the original criterion used by ISPs, before the regulators got
> involved.
> >> --
> >> Roland Perry
> >>
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