It still seems to me strange that Bio-Rad would build a machine that can
reach pressures suitable for reverse-phase chromatography, but then not
include software control for gradual pump acceleration. I tried to
communicate to BioRad corporate suits that many HPLC columns are too
fragile for abrupt pump acceleration, but it was like speaking Swahili.

Having typed that, I'm not up to date with the latest DuoFlow software.

For HPLC, I'm still very fond of Waters pumps and their gentle handling of
columns. I tried to communicate to Waters corporate suits that what the
academic world could use is their Breeze system with non-corroding pump
heads, but it was like speaking Swahili.

(FPLC is a trademark. The marketing hype has been so effective that many
people think that FPLC is a method.)

-Dan

On Wed, 14 Feb 2007, William Clemons wrote:

> In my old lab everyone was slowly converting to Bio-rad for
> chromatography. We had an Akta and subsequently bought two Bio-rad
> DuoFlow. I actually never made the conversion then but those that had
> didn't want to use the Akta anymore.
>
> Upon starting my own lab I got quotes for both an Akta and a DuoFlow
> and the cost difference was striking. As Tamir said, the DuoFlow
> really is plug and play and you can build up the system you want so
> just buying the basic may not get you far but relatively easily you
> can get all of the features of a mid-range Akta (mutiple buffer
> valves, column valves, multiwavelength (4)). I should add that in all
> my interaction with equipment reps at GE Healthcare I generally came
> away with the feeling that they don't care that much about academics.
> They have a real air of superiority which is enough for me to not buy
> from them (although I get all my columns from them!).
>
> There are a few downsides to the DuoFlow. The software is not as nice
> as that for the Akta but it is fairly easy to train on and all of my
> people have gotten along fairly easily with it. The pumps for the
> standard DuoFlow are rated for much higher pressures than we
> biochemists typically use so sometimes they can struggle with
> pressures below 40 PSI. We got around this by adding a pressure
> inducer past the pump and have had no problems since. The only other
> downside that I'd mention is that the service reps aren't very well
> trained so this may not be the best system if it is the first time
> you've seen an FPLC. We had a Service Rep come in who forgot to turn
> off the pump after his test runs. This happened on a Friday and no
> one noticed the pump was running until the following Tuesday. This
> killed the pump but they quickly came and replaced all the parts and
> we haven't had a problem since.
>
> My final point is that Bio-rad is really great (at least here in LA)
> with academics and we were able to bundle in all of our protein gel
> parts, DNA gel parts, PCR machines, Gel Doc etc for less than the
> quote for the equivalent Akta. In fact, I just had a second Duo-Flow
> installed yesterday and was able to again bundle in a lot more
> equipment for my slowly growing lab. Bio-Rad isn't perfect but they
> get at least a B+ from me for general support and in the end my
> experience continues to be a positive one. It is probably the best
> purchasing experience I had in my start up and the only one I haven't
> had some major regret on.
>
> Just my 2 cents,
>
> Bil
>
> On Feb 14, 2007, at 8:41 AM, Tamir Gonen wrote:
>
> > I beg to differ.
> >
> > I have been an AKTA explorer user for about 5 years and switched to
> > DuoFlow about 4 yrs ago and now have one in my own lab. The BioRad
> > DuoFlow is awesome. It never ever breaks. I never had any problems
> > with this machine at all, it takes any column (pharmacia or
> > otherwise) given the right adapters. The AKTA are really cumbersome
> > and complicated to use and teach on - its all inside a big black
> > box that looks (and feels) like a tank, while the DuoFlow has a
> > really simple design, and is basically "plug and play".
> >
> > The AKTA is really good for analytical applications when you have
> > very small amounts of your protein and of course you can detect
> > multiple wave lengths at a time (you can add special unit for multi
> > wavelengths on the biorad). The DuoFlow struggles  with very small
> > protein concentrations (<0.05mg/ml) and the void volume on its
> > tubing further dilutes the sample. If you know what you are doing,
> > it is easy to optimize the setup in such a way that you minimize
> > the void volume on the DuoFlow.
> >
> > Finally, the AKTA has an in line filter which always gets clogged
> > up when you have buffer with detergent. The DuoFlow does not have a
> > filter at all which means if your students and postdocs are not
> > careful, the filters in the column will get clogged. But all you
> > need to do is filter your sample prior to injection.
> >
> > BioRad service is not so great but if you take care of your machine
> > you really dont need to worry. It is really robust. Plus, for the
> > price of an explorer you could buy two top-of-the-line DuoFlow
> > systems together with columns.
> >
> > Tamir.
> >
> >
> > ______________________
> > Dr Tamir Gonen
> >
> > Department of Biochemistry
> > Box 357350
> > University of Washington
> > Seattle, WA 98195
> >
> > Tel: (206) 616 7565 (Office)
> > 	(206) 616 8529 (Lab)
> > Fax: (206) 685 1792
> > [log in to unmask]
> >
> > http://faculty.washington.edu/tgonen/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Feb 14, 2007, at 8:19 AM, Frank Lee wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Dear all,
> >>
> >> Thanks a lot for all the feedbacks on AKTA prime. They are so
> >> helpful that I have abandoned the idea of buying one. Now it is a
> >> choice between AKTA FPLC and Bio-rad DuoFlow. I heard that DuoFlow
> >> is not as robust as AKTA and that its parts break down often. The
> >> question is whether quality difference is worth price difference (~
> >> $10K). Any feebacks on DuoFlow would be highly appreciated!
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> Frank
> >>
> >> Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
> >> in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
> >
>
> ************************************
> Bil Clemons, PhD
> Assistant Professor of Chemistry
> Caltech
> 157 Broad Center
> MC 114-96
> Pasadena, CA 91125
> (626) 395-1796
> [log in to unmask]
> ************************************
>
>
>