medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
I occasionally go to the Corpus Christianorum ed. of Guillelmus Durantis, Rationale divinorum officiorum, allowing for lack of uniformity in practice.
Tom Izbicki
Thomas Izbicki
Research Services Librarian
and Gifts-in-Kind Officer
Eisenhower Library
Johns Hopkins
Baltimore, MD 21218
(410)516-7173
fax (410)516-8399
>>> John Wickstrom <[log in to unmask]> 11/7/2006 7:17 PM >>>
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
I was a little sleepy after work*of course, Taft doesn’t deal directly with the Mass, only the office (his modern sounding, somewhat misleading title should not
be off-putting*the bulk of his book treats Early Christian, Late Antique and Medieval office liturgies. The Mass does come in for some discussion as the liturgy which the office surrounds.
jbw
_____
From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Wickstrom
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 7:10 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [M-R] More on Liturgy
Dear John,
Reading your post, I would change my reading suggestions a bit. I would now recommend Robert Taft's _Liturgy of the Hours in East and West_. Although Taft is perhaps the foremost expert writing in English on the Eastern liturgy, this volume is admirably clear in its analysis of the main trends of the mass and office (the latter is especially well done) in both eastern and western usages from the beginning through modern times. (He includes the Reformation reforms of the liturgy, esp. the office, , a most interesting chapter.)
Looking over Vogel after reading your post, I agree that he is most useful for the mass rather than the office and his exposition is not easy. Not good for a clear exposition of the issues you raise.
Finally, I would wonder if your frustration is not partially a matter of demanding clarity of rubric regarding usages that varied a great deal over both geography and time. What might have been a midnight through Vespers rubric in one area or period might well be a Matins (or Vigils) through Nones usage in another. Uniformity of usage does not predate the Breviarium Romanum of Pius V and the corresponding Breviarium Monasticum of some of the post-Reformation Benedictine congregations in Italy and France (if then).
best,
John W.
-----Original Message-----
From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Briggs
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 5:28 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [M-R] More on Liturgy
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
John Wickstrom wrote:
>
> Cyrille Vogel's Medieval Liturgy as revised by William Storey and
> Niels Rasmussen (1986) is the best one volume presentation of
> medieval liturgy I've seen.
Thanks - I've ordered a copy, although why the keenest price should be in
Rochester, NY is one of mysteries of life! But Harper (Forms and Orders)
says that Vogel concentrates on the Mass, and doesn't really deal with the
Office.
> Andrew Hughes, Medieval Manuscripts for Mass and Office has a good
> introductory section (1982).
I'm struggling with this. It seems to be a besetting sin of liturgiologists
to devise their own complicated mnemonic systems of abbreviations, symbols
and typefaces (cf Frere).
> Another volume, the best for detailed discussion of the medieval
> office (despite its specialized title) is volume VI of
>
> J.B.L. Tollhurst, The Monastic Breviary for Hyde Abbey (1942)
> subsequently published (1993) as a separate volume: Introduction to
> the English Monastic Breviaries.
I'm *really* struggling with that one. I think that Tolhurst had spent so
long with the medieval liturgy that he had absorbed the scholastic cast of
thought, and was incapable of writing any other way. (I find this problem
with Frere, as well.) I find that Tolhurst explains things in considerable
detail, but with an almost complete absence of clarity. Not to mention
neglecting to explain *why* he is explaining what he is. Obviously, a lot
of knowledge is assumed - but there is not much clue as to what that might
be!
Where simple things *are* explained clearly, the authorities don't always
agree. Take the liturgical day, which is where we came in. Tolhurst baldly
states that the liturgical day starts the evening before. No exceptions. No
suggestion that ferias might be different. Hughes states that by the end of
the medieval period, the liturgical day was regarded as starting at
midnight. Which leaves him at a bit of a loss to explain why feasts might
still behave as they do. Harper states (with admirable clarity) that ferias
start at midnight, that simple feasts start with their vespers the day
before, and that double feasts have first vespers the day before, and second
vespers on the day itself. This is all well and good, but one is left with a
nagging suspicion that it might be an oversimplification! Nobody seems
confident about compline...
Hughes says that Harper's Forms and Orders is a book that he wished he
himself had written. Given the complexity of his own book, one might
perhaps be permitted some scepticism... Of course, Harper may not have been
overburdened with knowledge when he wrote his book. Many years later, at a
meeting this year of the Plainsong and Medieval Music Society, he gave a
dazzling virtuoso presentation of the results of his recent research into
reconstructing the choral forces for the whole liturgy of Rochester
Cathedral c.1544 - and succeeded in confusing everybody, including himself!
I am still staring at the handout and can't decide whether two columns have
become interchanged or not!
John Briggs
**********************************************************************
To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME
to: [log in to unmask]
To send a message to the list, address it to:
[log in to unmask]
To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion
to: [log in to unmask]
In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to:
[log in to unmask]
For further information, visit our web site:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.29/520 - Release Date: 11/6/2006
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.29/520 - Release Date: 11/6/2006
********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.29/520 - Release Date: 11/6/2006
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.29/520 - Release Date: 11/6/2006
**********************************************************************
To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME
to: [log in to unmask]
To send a message to the list, address it to:
[log in to unmask]
To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion
to: [log in to unmask]
In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to:
[log in to unmask]
For further information, visit our web site:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html
**********************************************************************
To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME
to: [log in to unmask]
To send a message to the list, address it to:
[log in to unmask]
To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion
to: [log in to unmask]
In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to:
[log in to unmask]
For further information, visit our web site:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html
|