Such incredible and pleasurable rhythm in this discussion!  I am enjoying it 
tremendously and learning so much along the way.

I, too, am a musician and former science guy working in organizational, 
creativity and leadership development, and as I've been following the tracks 
of this discussion, a few thought fragments have come to mind.  Hope they 
resonate in the mix.

Rhythm is inherently self-reflective, i.e., resembles itself in potentially 
endless variation.

By definition, rhythm is not chaotic, rather an expression of order and 
evolving order with an implicit sense of direction.

Rhythm invites complexification (remember John Casti's book?) and servers as 
a substratum for (among other things) meaning-making.

Music's other dimensions (melody, harmony, dynamics, tempo) play on this 
substratum, merge into its fabric and we now seem to achieve a level of 
meaning-making alive to ideas woven with emotion, deeply felt and 
wide-ranging.  (recall Bateson's "patterns which connect")  As patterns and 
structures increase in scale and complexity, they begin to resemble us --  
our psychies, our organizations.  They begin to tell our story achetypally. 
(Miha's work is anchored in this principal.  Bravo, Miha!)

Rhythm and music entrain and captivate us, pull us into their world, 
enkindle that world within us -- and we dance, physically, metaphysically. 
We are pulled into a flow of life biologically, psychologically, 
intellectually, spiritually.  In this sense, rhythm is perpetual invitation, 
entreating our creative participation: join this community of felt 
experence, be in this flow of life and add something of yours to it.

The great thing about this patterning in sound is that it our apprehension 
of it is not merely intellectually, it is felt systemically and there are 
virtually unstoppable consequences once this feeling enters the human 
system.  You know the Gershwin "I've got rhythm; I've got music; I've got my 
love.  Who could ask for anything more!"

So much for my riff.  Back to you!
John (Cimino)


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "philippe mairesse" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 5:22 AM
Subject: Re: call for help_rhythm and organizing


> Managing Rythm, Chaos, Order, and Art as a Life inBetweeen
>
> Dear friends,
>
> Following this thread about rythm I was feeling quite a foreigner with
> fewcompetences,
> my skills as a musician, a singer or even a music listener being, say,
> somehow disabled...
> But a sentence by Davis Atkinson made me think of an interesting story
> related to "natural" rythms and leaders.
>
> I due it to Albert, a PhD fellow in Utrecht University for Humanistic, who
> passed me the paper.
> It's about Pollock, the famous painter and a definitve leader in the 
> field:
> a recent auction saw one of his painting reaching the highest price on the
> market. He was known for his love for drinking as well as for painting, 
> the
> legend describes his transes under alcohol and loud free jazz music, 
> wildely
> pouring by chance painting from holes in cans, creating his famous
> "dripping".
>
> A paper (  "Order in Pollock's Chaos", Scientific American, dec 2002 ) 
> shows
> how all his paintings are strictly fractals and how their "rythm" follows
> closely that of clouds, wind in tree branches, or other natural rythms. It
> appears then that Pollock's main job was to put himself in such a state of
> mind and body that he would be able to grasp and restitue these natural
> fractal rythms in a painting format.
>
> Seizing theses meaningful (touching the people, was curiously like better
> fractal rythms than others) rythms and turning them into precious objects
> made him die young, and a leader in arts.
>
> A "natural leader"?
>
> Capturing meaningful rythm, if powerful, needs commitment to dangerous
> lives...for nature and rythms are not still life!
>
> But of course, he was an artist, and everyone knows that artists are 
> crazy,
> drunk and only get where they get by chance.
> Never follow their ways.
> Unless ?
>
> Philippe Mairesse
> : acces local
> www.acces-local.com
> : patrick mathieu conseil
> www.patrickmathieuconseil.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Atkinson" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 2:46 PM
> Subject: Re: call for help_rhythm and organizing
>
>
>> This is a very interesting discussion thread on rhythm and organising.
>>
>> At the risk of clouding the issue, and - as a newcomer to AACORN - my
>> apologies in advance if I do, I offer the following muse.
>>
>> As a metaphor I see rhythm as yet another powerful method of unpicking
>> what might appear to be good (or bad) about this or that management
>> and/or organisational performance; in order that certain performances
>> might be better replicated. This would, I believe, follow Agyris's Model
>> I concept of organisational management learning.
>>
>> Do we then look for managers who have "natural" rhythm when we lack a
>> blue print for organisational action? This might, for example, be within
>> complex and ambiguous situations.
>>
>> While we might teach dance routines or the techniques for playing a
>> certain instrument, can we teach "performance with rhythm"? Here, I
>> believe, we enter the realm of whether or not, or to what extent, can an
>> organisational manager be deemed an artist and whether or not, or to
>> what extent the organization itself might be considered a work of art?
>> If management/organisation seen as an art-form is
>> management/organisation with rhythm this might a freedom of expression
>> that is to be welcomed/championed and celebrated in some circumstances
>> and context but in others possibly to be seen as a threat to
>> organization stability.
>>
>> For example, self-learning organisations implicitly suggest an inherent
>> "rhythm generation capability" - what might this be? What we, as Western
>> "organisers", would class as a rhythmic ideal would not easily match
>> with our Eastern counterparts.
>>
>> To my mind, rhythm presents itself as yet another concept fascinating in
>> its intricacy and a powerful metaphor but, at least on the face of it,
>> offering perhaps little within itself to indicate any transcendent
>> purpose. If that makes sense.
>>
>> Over to you all again!
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> David
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Aesthetics, Creativity, and Organisations Research Network
>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Nicoline Jacoby Petersen
>> Sent: 10 November 2006 13:16
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: call for help_rhythm and organizing
>>
>> I'm working on designing new conference formats, and some months ago I
>> put RHYTHM to my list of design principles - so I find this discussion
>> very interesting!
>>
>> I haven't explored the concept that much yet (thanks for the
>> references!), but I found rhythm relevant for my work for several
>> reasons:
>>
>> I've been looking into attention psychology, and it seems that the body
>> runs in two hour cycles regarding attention: humans switch between being
>> introvert attentive and extrovert attentive during a day (I don't know
>> if these are the right words in English).
>> So to me, rhythm (or: a good rhythm) can also be conceived in terms of
>> accommodating bodily needs during a conference day, if that makes sense
>> ;-)
>>
>> Next, I think that variation is a key to keeping attention, and again
>> rhythm offers a good way of thinking along these lines (introducing A,
>> repeating A, breaking the routine by introducing B, and repeating A
>> again - which also breaks the routine, yet is familiar to the audience).
>>
>> Finally there is something about rhythm and timing/planning. In a
>> conference setting, the perceived time is often very different from real
>> time - time can fly by and time can stand still. It can be difficult to
>> plan that all speeches for example should only last 30 minutes - since
>> some speeches will be perceived as lasting 10 minutes and some as hours.
>> So you want to make sure that the rhythm is in alignment with the
>> perceived time - and how do you plan that?!
>>
>> Just a few thoughts - which of course doesn't answer David's interesting
>> question about cultural differences in rythms... Haven't thought of
>> that, but sure will do ;-)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Nicoline
>>
>>
>> //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
>> Nicoline Jacoby Petersen // PhD student
>> www.dpu.dk/about/njp
>>
>> LEARNING LAB DENMARK
>> The Danish University of Education
>> Emdrupvej 101
>> 2400  Copenhagen NV
>> Denmark
>>
>> email: [log in to unmask]
>> phone: (+45) 8888 9983
>> mobile: (+45) 606 505 44
>> //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Aesthetics, Creativity, and Organisations Research Network
>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David Weir
>> Sent: 10. november 2006 10:14
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: call for help_rhythm and organizing
>>
>> -Hi guys;
>> Here are some questions that bother me. For example, do different
>> cultures have different rhythms? Do different organisation structures?
>> Different occupational systems? How do we study this?
>> If different musics embody different accounts of time!space, why is
>> this? How are these rhythms transmitted? Are different cognitive
>> structures involved?
>> Why is Jimmy Giuffre's "Train and the River" about a train and a river?
>> How is Takemitsu about "the thing we call Time"?
>> Please answer within one hour as we are discussing this topic right now
>> in class.
>>  Thanks to all.
>> Rock On,Dudes!
>> David
>>
>> ---- Start Original Message -----
>> Sent: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 09:18:58 +1300
>> From: "Bathurst, Ralph" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: call for help_rhythm and organizing
>>
>> > Hi Enrico
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Yes we have spent time talking about this issue.  Our critique of
>> Albert
>> > and Bell was fairly muted.  Our reserve about their analysis was based
>>
>> > on the notion that musical rhythm is much more complex than A & B
>> > indicated.  The trouble is that it requires much more sophisticated
>> > musical knowledge to tease out those complexities.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > It seems to me that to do this within the organisational studies
>> > discipline is going to involve devising a language that retains
>> > musicological integrity while at the same time is accessible to
>> > non-musicians.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > For instance even defining rhythm is tricky.  We could think of it at
>> > the level of pulse (or beat) which is where A & B focus, or we could
>> go
>> > deeper and think of elements like harmonic rhythm which are more
>> complex
>> > but much more interesting.  Our critique of A & B signalled this
>> latter
>> > notion of harmonic rhythm but this is where musical knowledge is
>> > crucial.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I am happy to engage in conversation about this with you and other
>> > interested people if you want.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Cheers
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Ralph (Bathurst)
>> >
>> >   _____
>> >
>> > From: Daved Barry [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>> > Sent: Friday, 10 November 2006 1:52 a.m.
>> > To: 'enrico maria piras'; [log in to unmask]
>> > Cc: Bathurst, Ralph; [log in to unmask]
>> > Subject: RE: call for help_rhythm and organizing
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Ralph (Bathurst) and Lloyd (Williams)-didn't we talk about this at
>> > Krakow? Seems to me there were some rhythm discussions there. Anyway,
>> in
>> > addition to the work that Ralph Kerle suggested, you should look at
>> > Cadences at Waco: A critique of "Timing and Music" by Stuart Albert
>> and
>> > Geoffrey Bell (2002) Academy of Management Review, 27(4): 574-593. (as
>>
>> > well as the original Albert and Bell piece). They really started the
>> > whole idea of rhythm and organization and are the only ones I know
>> > who've gotten very far with the concept. Hope this helps! Daved
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >   _____
>> >
>> > From: Aesthetics, Creativity, and Organisations Research Network
>> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of enrico maria piras
>> > Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 7:08 PM
>> > To: [log in to unmask]
>> > Subject: call for help_rhythm and organizing
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Dear Acorners,
>> >
>> > I'm right in the middle of writing a book section on an aesthetic
>> > perspective on workgroup cohesion.
>> > The key concept in my analysis will be "rhythm", which I will use to
>> > explore how micropractices are built. So far in my literature review I
>>
>> > haven't found many references. I mean, many articles and authors use
>> the
>> > word "rhythm" but only on an evocative level and there seems to be not
>>
>> > much theory attached to this word. At the moment I'm referring to some
>>
>> > reflections on art and especially music. I'd like to find out how this
>>
>> > concept has been used in organizational theory.
>> > I'm sure some of you has come across this concept or something similar
>>
>> > to it in your research. Could you help?
>> >
>> > best
>> > Enrico
>> >
>>
>> ----- End Original Message -----
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Broker4Broker
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