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MEDIEVAL-RELIGION  July 2006

MEDIEVAL-RELIGION July 2006

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Subject:

Re: Santa Maria delle Vergini inscription

From:

John Dillon <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 19 Jul 2006 23:12:58 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (106 lines)

medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture

Hi, Chris

I gather from Caitlin's correspondence here that the inscription in question
is translated in Mary Laven's _Virgins of Venice_:
http://tinyurl.com/zp5ky

Using that information, I came up with the following exchange from last
February on forum-Venise:
http://tinyurl.com/k647w

The messages from "Stef" in Brussels give directions to the plaque, two
photographs of its present context (not now on an arch), and a
transcription of its text.  The latter reads:
MDLVII ADI II MAZO
SPES ET AMOR GRATO
CARCERE NOS RETINET
S:M: DELE VERZENE

The text is macaronic: lines 1 and 4 are in Venetian, 2 and 3 in Latin.
 A translation follows:
2 March 1557
Hope and love in this pleasant
prison keeps us
S. M. delle Vergini

Note that the verb form RETINET is third-person singular (hence the
ungrammatical "keeps" in my translation).  With a plural grammatical
subject ("spes et amor") one would expect the corresponding plural form
RETINENT ("keep").  The latter could have been written as RETINET with a
suprascript line over the second E signalling the otherwise unexpressed
nasal, in which case "Stef" has not noticed the line (or has noticed it
but failed to grasp its significance) or the line is no longer clearly
visible (this often happens in lapidary inscriptions).  

Best,
John Dillon

On Wednesday, July 19, 2006, at 6:46 pm, Chris Laning wrote:

> My colleague Caitlin, who's not on this list, is trying to decipher 
> an inscription from a photograph, but she isn't even sure whether 
> it's Italian or Latin, to start with. Since it seems to be a fairly 
> well-known landmark, I thought I'd ask here if anyone knows more 
> about it. (Better photos would certainly help.)
> 
> Caitlin writes:
> 
> >I'm trying to guess at A/ what language and B/how it would have been
> >spelled for the following quote:
> >
> >"hope and love keeps us in this pleasant prison"
> >
> >This quote is from the arch of Santa Maria delle Vergini Convent in
> >Venice, dated May 2, 1557. The convent was demolished, but the arch
> >was saved then attached to the Arsenal. I have a photo of it, but not
> >enlarged enough to see the actual inscription. I can't locate a 
> larger>photo of this detail in the arch, unfortunately.
> >
> >I did a translation in Italian and again in Latin (Intertran has 
> Latin>now! yay!) and the few bits of words I could make out makes 
> me think
> >it is Latin - which is logical for the time. What I have so far is:
> >
> >spes quod diligo servo nos huic voluptarius carcer
> >
> >I could pick out "carcer" without trouble from the photo, but the 
> rest>is hard to make out. It looks like there could have been a 
> shorter>word at the beginning rather than what I have. 
> "Voluptarius" appears
> >to be altogether too long, but the discolouration and lack of detail
> >in the photo makes it impossible to tell.
> >
> >In Italian:
> >sperare e amore ricordo ci in questo piacevole prigione
> >
> >None of these words look as if they should fit.
> >
> >Before I pronounce this Latin text, I'd like to make certain the
> >translator did its job correctly, and hopefully someone can make
> >any needed corrections in this as well, or decipher the possibly
> >shortened word at the beginning. There are four lines of text, the
> >last one is the name of the convent:
> >
> >S-M-DELe VERzINE
> >
> >The lower case letters I am not completely certain about.
> >The four lines also include the date mentioned above.
> >Can anyone help me out with this?
> 
> I'll be happy to pass on any suggestions. (I don't have her photo; 
> it's not online.)

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