Your tone has bothered me, as I have indicated, and I know you may not
realize that it is because you are coming from a position of power, for
instance that you see relationships as more important than careers or jobs,
but it would be helpful if you would acknowledge that aspect of power.
Sue McPherson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Annie Mitchell" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 11:57 PM
Subject: Re: Careers Re: 10000 more psychologists needed....
Hi Sue ( and others),
For the list as a whole - I am troubled that the tone of some recent
exchanges may well be off-putting to other people wanting to read and
contribute on the list I wonder if the time is right to re-visit our shared
rules/ expectations for postings? What do others think?
Meantime I'm going to refrain from more contributions for a while and leave
space for others. I'd be interested in peoples' views about my comments on
Layard.. and how those interested in community psychology might help to
redress the balance regarding the current political emphasis on therapeutic
psychology. How can we make a stronger case for more teaching and learning
about community psychology? How can we act together to provide it? or am I
off the mark in being concerned?
For Sue - I was musing on your message, not ignoring it. I did feel accused
but no doubt you had your reasons. And I felt grateful to Mike for his
comment which to me seemed wise and non-accusatory. As you don't know me
personally, maybe I seem to represent those who in your experience just
carry on as usual and ignore what is going on. Those with more access to
power and influence do often seem to ignore what is going on for those with
less power and I certainly regret the times I do that, and I want to try to
do that less, just as I feel distressed when others do that to me, and I
want them to do it less.
Annie
-----Original Message-----
From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List on behalf of Sue McPherson
Sent: Mon 03/07/2006 18:17
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Careers Re: 10000 more psychologists needed....
Next time you wish to make a confession, sit on Annie's post, or anyone's
but not mine.
You're intelligent enough, surely, to see how that might have been seen by
others. It certainly did come across as meaning that I had been accusing
Annie, and accusing her unjustly, in your view. That is unacceptable to me.
I had intended to send the above to you personally, Michael, in response to
your private message, but I think it needs to be said to the list. I had
raised what I thought were valid concerns, to Annie, and she has ignored
that post, the one you chose to place your own comment on, about "making
judgements." I made no personal attack on Annie. We were talking about
power. And if you - and she - are using your power in ways that undermine
what I am trying to say and do, then that is a misuse of your power, both of
you.
Sue McPherson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Swindlehurst" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 7:08 PM
Subject: Re: Careers Re: 10000 more psychologists needed....
> I am guilty of making wrong judgements on people I know little or nothing
> about. Those I attack today I may sorely need tomorrow.
>
> Mike S
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sue McPherson" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 4:23 PM
> Subject: Re: Careers Re: 10000 more psychologists needed....
>
>
> > When I say "work" I didn't mean that it had to be about relationships at
> > work but just about work itself. People can seek some kind of talking
> > therapy just to deal with issues of gaining confidence, even travelling
to
> > work in strange cities, or the effect that not having work has on one's
> > life. So, nothing to do with relationships necessarily. But no, I don't
> > think it is easy to dismiss things like "work" that are so important. I
> > think it is a sign of where you - and many psychologists - are coming
> > from - your standpoint. Once you have the career, it is relationships
that
> > become important. In fact, most people up there would say relationships
> > are what are most important in life - just as you did - and that simply
reflects
> > the power you have to impose your own point of view.
> >
> > I didn't know psychology was a "talk therapy." I though it was more
about
> > using the rorsach test and other psychological tests to figure out where
a
> > person was at, then apply the dsm and label them. If this govt document
> > suggested that people wanted more talk therapy why on earth wouldf they
> > suggest ten thousand psychologists. That is so ridiculous! - even if
some
> > of them dod do talk therapy. There are so many other kinds of therapy.
> > What is it with these people!
> >
> > Re injustice: some people are more vulnerable than others to injustice.
> > eg,
> > speaking of women, those without a husband; or without property, (or
job,
> > of course) or without family nearby; or, if they are older, and not
sexually
> > active. How do you fit in there? I have nothing. Just two degrees - a 4
> > year BA and a 2 yr MA. They took me longer, but that's what they are.
And
> > I
> > am treated in this country like a piece of shit.
> >
> > Oh, did we forget anger management - psychologists must be very good at
> > trying to pass that one off on the victim, don't you think?
> >
> > And I think that saying sorry isn't enough. Not when so much damage has
> > been
> > done to my life here. Things aren't that much better in Canada, but here
> > is
> > worse - the class system is worse. I live in despair, but no fucking
> > psychologist can help me.
> >
> > I recall someone in Canada who was doing research on a man who, one day,
> > up
> > and killed his wife and teenage children. He had lost his job and their
> > beautiful home and middle class lifestyle would have been the next to
go.
> > So
> > he decided to end it all for them so they would not have to suffer. In
the
> > study this researcher conducted, she explored the feelings of people in
> > the
> > community to see how they coped with tragedy. One said, We had no idea!
> > another said: If only he had come to us! And so on. I know, from
> > experience,
> > how it works. People fall away from you. They don't invite you, they
don't
> > make you feel welcome. But they do keep sending literature - from clubs
> > you
> > used to go to, as if you were still welcome but declined to go. They do
> > cruel things, say cruel things, and then, what do you suppose they say
> > when
> > you stop looking at people, when you stop trying to interact with them
to
> > protect yourself. I know how it is. And that man's decision to end his
> > family's life may not have seemed fair, but the pain they would have had
> > to
> > endure, and the reduced quality of life, makes one wonder. People don't
> > help
> > when they see you being forced down the social ladder.
> >
> > You say, "injustices do happen" - obviously not in your life to the
> > extent
> > it has in mine. Don't pretend you know what I am going through and what
I
> > have already been through, at the university here and in this community,
> > which works to serve the university. Just carry on as you always have,
and
> > ignore what's going on..
> >
> > And I shall continue to write on Marc Lepine and the Montreal Massacre -
> > essay revised today.
> >
> > Sue McPherson
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Annie Mitchell" <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 3:45 PM
> > Subject: Re: Careers Re: 10000 more psychologists needed....
> >
> >
> > Hi Sue,
> >
> > Thanks for your response. No, I wasn't feeling victimised. And I agree
> > that
> > there is a risk of me just talking to other psychologists, so it is good
> > to
> > have you and Mike active on the list. I agree that psychologists in work
> > do
> > have power, and I worry both about the responsibilities that go with
that
> > power and also about the risk of abusing it..As Mike said on another
> > posting, community psychologists tend to be very critical of ourselves -
> > I
> > feel that it is important to be critical and to remain open to
criticism,
> > but also to be forgiving, supportive and enouraging both to ourselves
and
> > to
> > others who share socially inclusive values but with whom we may not
> > always
> > completely agree.
> >
> > In my last posting I was just musing aloud really about my worries, and
> > wanting to keep the debate going. . I am concerned about how we all - (I
> > as
> > an individual, us list members as people interested in psychology and
> > all
> > of us as members of society, and the government) are going to respond
to
> > Lord Layard's proposals and was stimulated to write by David's comments
> > about the need for different sorts of training in psychology. . Of
course
> > you are right - work is hugely important. Life and humans are so
> > complex -
> > as soon as we focus on one aspect ( eg relationships - and I meant all
> > our
> > relationships, including but not only personal relationships) it is easy
> > in
> > doing so to turn attention away from other things that are also
important
> > ( eg work).
> >
> > In the bit where I mentioned talking therapies for people who are
> > psychologically distressed - there I was referring to Layard, who, in
his
> > government report, uses evidence that people want greater access to
> > psychological therapies or talking therapies as part of his
justification
> > for arguing that there should be more public money spent on training
more
> > psychologists.
> >
> > Regarding employment - I think that there have been good legislation
> > improvements recently regarding equal opportunities and, where these are
> > properly applied, it should be ability, skills and knowledge that count;
> > it's bad in all sorts of ways to experience injustice in employment.
And
> > of
> > course we all know that policies don't always get properly applied and
> > that
> > injustices do happen. And we are all vulnerable to such injustices - I
am
> > sorry that you have had bad experiences in this regard.
> >
> > For those who are interested in "New Ways of Working as Applied
> > Psychologists" there is what is called a stakeholder conference, run by
> > the
> > British Psychological Society (BPS) coming up very soon (14th july) in
> > Wolverhampton - further information can be found on
> >
http://www.bps.org.uk/the-society/boardscommittees/professional-practice-boa
> > rd/new_ways_of_working_for_applied_psychologists.cfm-
> >
> > Good wishes,
> >
> >
> > Annie
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List on behalf of Sue
> > McPherson
> > Sent: Sun 02/07/2006 13:08
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: Careers Re: 10000 more psychologists needed....
> >
> > Annie Mitchell
> >
> > I hope you are not feeling victimized because I was critical of the
> > motives
> > of psychology and other therapies in society. It should not be forgotten
> > that you are the ones with the power - to encourage others to be
> > inclusive,
> > or to dissuade them by your own behaviour. One way you can make a
> > difference
> > is to respond directly to those who approach you with their concerns. I
> > would appreciate it if you did that, to my post. If you want to
challenge
> > social forces at work, that's probably one of the best ways of doing it.
> > Otherwise, it is simply you (psychologists) talking amongst yourselves
> > about
> > "them."
> >
> > I think that psychology should be, or could be, a "talking therapy." I'm
> > not
> > sure what you're getting at when you mention that subject - that I am
one
> > of
> > the psychologically distressed? It is a topic I approached in my post,
if
> > I
> > recall correctly. It's actually work that can underly our well-being, in
> > my
> > view, and not simply personal relationships, as you suggest. That's
> > probably
> > an old-fashioned view that personal relationships count more. But for
> > people
> > who are single, it's work that counts. Believe me! Again, this seems to
> > be
> >an indication of social problems being approached from one perspective
> >only.
> > To working people with spouses, what's important appears to be the
> > relationship. But it might not be to people with neither the job nor the
> > relationship.
> >
> > And communities don't tend to be inclusive of people with neither of
these
> > (job nor relationship). So how are you going to challenge that kind of
> > thinking unless you start doing it yourself - being inclusive on a
> > discussion list and not simply responding to other psychologists?
> >
> > You are the ones with power, as I said. You set an example by your
> > actions.
> > You can simply sit up there and do nothing, and people will follow your
> > example. Of course personal relationships are important. I agree with
> > that.
> > But having a job is what gives you the identity to be able to relate to
> > people on a level other than "underclass," (unless one is independently
> > wealthy, or can demonstrate ownership of property, or membership of the
> > "right" family).
> >
> > To some people, it is the job that matters. And I know this because it
is
> > the job - the lack of one - that holds me back. I applied to the
position
> > mentioned on this list recently, for Nigel Wellman, but even with all
the
> > research I've done, what chance do I have? You're right, it is
> > relationships
> > that count. One needs the relationships to get the job. Or is it youth
> > that
> > counts. And sexual attractiveness, and all the possibilities that holds
> > with
> > it. Add that one in as another factor I am lacking, by today's
standards.
> > Yes, the relationship is important. It's too bad that it is what counts
in
> > todays' world, and not ability, knowledge, and experience. The
> > relationship gets you the job, and the job enables one to form new
> > relationships, and so on, up the ladder to success.
> >
> > Sue McPherson
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Annie Mitchell" <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 11:15 AM
> > Subject: Re: Careers Re: 10000 more psychologists needed....
> >
> >
> > Lord Layard, whose government report advocates training more clinical
> > psychologists so as to support the provision of more psychological
> > therapies, provides an analysis in his book Happiness (2005), of why in
> > most
> > Western countries, including the UK, depression rates seem to be rising
> > and
> > happiness rates not rising despite overall increases in material
> > well-being.
> > As an economist he has to express surprise - political economy
> > expectations
> > had been that increases in GDP would bring increases in citizen
well-being
> > overall, yet that simply hasn't happened, at least not in the arena of
> > psychological well-being. He looks at the psychological literature and
> > concludes that social comparisions are an underlying mechanism: He says
> > "We
> > have a good idea why happiness has risen less than was expected: our
norms
> > have risen, as other people's incomes have risen and likewise our own
> > experience of comfort. The central mechanism at work here is our habit
of
> > comparision." Now, one possible route for an economist interested in
> > psychology to follow on unearthing this insight would be to start
thinking
> > about how psychology could help in challenging the social forces at work
> > that promote unhelpful expectations and aspirations and that fuel
> > inequalitites, social divisions and war ( eg the role of advertising,
the
> > role of the media, the role of big business and shareholder economics in
> > structuring western society towards ever increasing expecations of share
> > holder rewards, the role of social denial in the face of huge evidence
> > that
> > unsustainable levels of consumption are fuelling environmental
degradation
> > and climate change). Indeed, there is plenty in his analysis to take us
> > along the route in exploring these issues. However, his advisors from
> > mainstream psychology are not too good at providing help with all of
this.
> > Psychology as it has been advanced in the west is largely ( though not
> > entirely) the cognitive psychology of the individual, with a significant
> > interest in clinical psychology in how to change people's thinking --
and
> > given political avoidance of tackling the vested interests at work in
> > advancing the social inequalities underpinning human distress, it is
> > unsurprising that it is psychological therapy (changing individuals'
> > "faulty" or "unhelpful" ways of thinking) that is currently attractive
> > politically. If we concentrate on getting the population happy with
things
> > as they are, there is less political threat to those who stand to
benefit
> > from things being as they are.
> >
> > Yet at the same time, there is plenty of policy analysis in the Uk
> > currently
> > that acknowledges the need for more socially just services and
provision -
> > the NHS and public services are inceasingly asked to contribute to
efforts
> > challenging social inequalites at a service provision level - there are
> > numerous examples of policy initiatives such as the Ten Essential Shared
> > Capabailites of the Whole of the Mental Health Workforce which require
us
> > to
> > work in ways advocated by community psychology - promoting partnership.
> > prevention and empowerment ... there is lots of scope for challenging or
> > providing a counter-balance to the current pre-occupation with
individual
> > therapy. However, since community psychology is so marginal to
> > professional
> > structures and therefore has no sort of political voice, we don't have
> > much
> > if any influence - currently the loudest voices in the applied clinical
> > field are those of cognitive behaviour therapists. I fully agree with
> > David
> > that we need more community psychology at all levels of psychology
> > learning.
> >
> > Of course it is the case that people who are psychologically distressed
> > are
> > asking for more talking therapies. We all know that human relationships
> > underpin our well-being ( indeed Layard's own analysis summarises some
of
> > the evidence that this is so). But the evidence is that when
psychological
> > therapies are helpful they work through the provision of effective
> > therapeutic relationships. But the social danger in focussing too much
on
> > the provision of "expert" relationships is that we thereby contribute to
> > the
> > diminishing of naturally occuring helpful relationships within
> > communities - we perpetuate the idea that people cannot help one another
> > but
> > instead must rely on "expert" help. Yet as David points out, we know
that
> > non-experts can be just as helpful as trained professionals. (But
trained
> > professionals are not keen on exploring that further - we want to belive
> > that our own therapies are special and complex thereby justifying our
own
> > existence). Yet there is evidence, for example in the field of
> > psychological
> > debriefing after disasters, that expert interventions, applied
> > uncriitically, can make things better rather than worse, apparently by
> > interfering with naturally occuring social healing processes.
> >
> > I worry as a trainer in clinical psychology that the debate is
polarised -
> > how can we contribute to advancing our social and psychological
> > understanding of the deeper forces underpinning human distress, while at
> > the
> > same time adressing the deep human need for sympathetic humane response
> > to
> > psychological distress in human individuals. Where is the space for
public
> > health psychology? At the same time, how do we stop ourselves simply
> > serving
> > our own vested interests - especially given the need to justify the
> > relatively large salaries that clinical psychologists earn? And how we
we
> > bring together a genuinely social applied psychology given the pressures
> > and
> > divides within our own discipline - and the various envies and
> > disgruntlements between the different branches of psychology? And how do
> > we
> > genuinely work together with our non-professional psychology colleagues/
> > comrades to contribute to social change? I am aware that many clinical
> > psychologists ( including many that I have been involved in training)
want
> > to apply their critical knowledge of community psycholgy in practice yet
> > experience difficulties in doing so because current NHS employment
> > pressures
> > along with uncritical management acceptance of the evidence base of what
> > works in practice limits the scope of their activities. It is hard (
> > though
> > not impossible) to promote social change from within - it seems to me
that
> > we need to work together both within and without professional structures
> > if
> > we are to tip the balance away from simplistic solutions towards more
> > complex analyses of what will improve our collective well-being.
> >
> > Annie
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List on behalf of David
Fryer
> > Sent: Sat 01/07/2006 10:54
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: Careers Re: 10000 more psychologists needed....
> >
> > Apologies if my previous posting was misleading for some.
> >
> > I am indeed based at Stirling University myself but I certainly did not
> > provide a link to the Stirling site to stimulate interest in careers via
> > that route. I drew attention to that masters course in the Department
of
> > psychology at Stirling, as part of the debate re 10,000 extra
> > psychologists,
> > because it is an example of the newer courses I expect to see
> > proliferating - they are far shorter than clinical courses and so the
> > graduates are far cheaper to produce. Such shorter courses will
inevitably
> > cover less material in less depth than three year clinical doctorates
> > because so much shorter and will provide a new workforce of
psychologists
> > for the NHS which is cheaper than employing clinical psychologists.
> >
> > Of course one can take different positions on such courses. From a
> > critical
> > perspective they share many of the problems of mainstream clinical
> > psychology: both are primarily are about 'treating' individuals within a
> > medical model frame of reference through intra-psychic change rather
than
> > preventing or addressing collective causes of distress within a social
> > justice frame of reference through societal change. Both collude with
> > victim
> > blaming. Some might argue that three years of clinical training provides
> > more scope for engaging with more approaches to intervention (some
> > clinical
> > courses include modules on community psychology) and more scope for
> > critical
> > reflection on the 'scientific practitioner' mantra. However, others
might
> > argue that because it is shorter the training for a one year masters has
> > less chance for trainees to be socialised into problematic clinical ways
> > and
> > less opportunities for the effectiveness of trainees to be diminished
than
> > clinical training (thinking of Durlak's classic work suggesting that non
> > professionals are often more effective than professionals in addressing
> > psychological difficulties).
> >
> > What I would really like to see is more opportunities to learn about
> > critical community* psychology in the UK as there are in many other
> > countries. Regrettably I cannot currently recommend Stirling in that
> > regard
> > to members of this list. An established undergraduate module in critical
> > community psychology has recently been discontinued by the University
and
> > whilst there is some really good postgraduate critical community
> > psychology
> > going on here now that particular work will be drawing to a close within
a
> > few months. Whilst future postgraduate supervision in critical community
> > psychology is available in theory, in practice funding is very difficult
> > indeed to get. Further community psychological praxis at Stirling
> > involving
> > more personnel depends, as elsewhere, upon the availability of external
> > funding but such funding seldom allows genuinely critical praxis for
> > obvious
> > reasons - why would the powerful fund work fundamentally devoted to
> > depowering it?
> >
> > David
> >
> > * interesting social psychology at Stirling is developing following the
> > relatively recent appointment of Alex Gillespie
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List on behalf of Sue
> > McPherson
> > Sent: Fri 30/06/2006 13:52
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] Careers Re: 10000 more psychologists
> > needed....
> >
> >
> > . . . . .
> >
> > Nevertheless, you will have many interested people (in careers,
probably)
> > looking at the Stirling site. It would be better, I am sure, if society
is
> > going to get stuck with more top-down cures that there is more variety.
> > .
> > . .. Are you at Stirling, by the way
> >
> > Sue McPherson
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: Michael Swindlehurst <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 11:23 PM
> > Subject: Re: 10000 more psychologists needed....
> >
> >
> > No spelling mistake (on this occassion) with my use of the word 'canon'.
> > This was a reference to the power of religion. The 'barons' refer to
those
> > who mostly control our social and economic structures as well put by
Cathy
> > and David below. The intended construction and advance of the 10k may
help
> > a
> > little toward enlightening the big guns but I fear it is more likely to
> > shield and prolong their reign at even greater loss to us all, including
> > themselves. Our species and planet cannot cope with these 'valley of
> > death'
> > conflicts and inequalities indefinately. I just hope we can come up with
a
> > universal light giving brigade before it is too late for all of us. My
> > hopes
> > for this are currently largely with list members and your allies - most
> > people on this planet I should imagine.
> >
> > Mike S
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: David Fryer <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 3:21 PM
> > Subject: Re: 10000 more psychologists needed....
> >
> > Who would train the 10,000 psychologists? Yet more psychologists (to be
> > employed and trained to train) of course.
> >
> > Would they come from the same school . . . . I would bet on training
> > primarily to deliver cognitive behaviour therapy to people diagnosed as
> > 'anxious' or 'depressed' . Much easier (and politically acceptable) to
> > offer
> > people psychological snake oil than to change our society to remove
social
> > causes of psychological distress and physical illness like unemployment,
> > stressful employment, domestic violence, racism, heterosexism, disabling
> > practices . . . . .
> >
> > If you want to get a glimpse of the likely future have a look at the MSc
> > Psychological Therapy in Primary Care at Stirling University: "A variety
> > of
> > studies by central government and professional bodies have identified
the
> > growing demand for psychological interventions for adults presenting
with
> > common mental health disorders (e.g. anxiety and depression) in NHS
> > Primary
> > care. There is also widespread recognition of the difficulties in
meeting
> > that demand. This Masters program, delivered jointly by the Universities
> > of
> > Stirling and Dundee has been designed by National Health Service (NHS)
> > professionals and experienced academics to train people to deliver
> > psychological therapies for common mental health disorders in adults in
> > Primary Care."
> > <http://www.psychology.stir.ac.uk/postgrad/propspectus2.php>
> > http://www.psychology.stir.ac.uk/postgrad/propspectus2.php
> >
> > To get back to Tennyson . . . I too struggled with the light brigade
> > comparison, find the poem's images repugnant on a variety of levels and
> > certainly do not see the 10K psychologists as the innocent victims.
Cathy
> > McCormack has spoken powerfully of the 'war without bullets' being waged
> > against people lower down the social hierarchy by people higher up it .
.
> > .
> > .a war being fought with brief cases, policies leading to widening
> > inequalities, stigma, disabling practices and psy-techniques which lead
> > people to internalise understandings of themselves and their settings
> > which
> > are damaging to them and serve the interests of the status quo. So if we
> > are
> > to think in terms of the charge of the light brigade at all, I suggest
> > imagining those advancing into the valley of death as being those
millions
> > of our fellow citizens who epidemiologists have repeatedly shown have
> > shorter, less healthy, more brutalised lives due to a variety of forms
of
> > societal inequality and imagine the the 10,000 psychologists as camped
on
> > the sides of the valley operating the CBT cannon to the left of them,
the
> > person centred cannon to the right of them, the stress management cannon
> > in
> > front of them and the positive psychology cannon behind them
> >
> > As for Marx . . .. I don't know about others but if my work was
described
> > as Marxist I would take it as a compliment . . .
> >
> > David
> >
> > David Fryer
> > Community Psychology Group
> > University of Stirling
> > FK9 4LA
> > Scotland
> > +44 (0) 1786 467650 (tel)
> > +44 (0) 1786 467641 (fax)
> > [log in to unmask]
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Sue McPherson
> > Sent: 29 June 2006 1:53 pm
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] 10000 more psychologists needed....
> >
> >
> > I don't know who you are or what you do. Sounds Marxist to me. I can't
> > come up with a different metaphor at this moment but how about just not
> > seeing the world in terms of them and "us" with psychologists the
innocent
> > victims in all this.
> >
> > Does not anyone know the theory behind this - that as people are
rewarded
> > they will align themselves with the oppressors? Psychologists can do
harm
> > as
> > well as good, as any of us can. But they do have a lot of power.
> >
> > I would want to ask, who is going to train all these psychologists? Are
> > they
> > all going to come from the same school - the same way of thinking.
> > Wouldn't
> > it be better to have a variety of mental health professionals - if there
> > has
> > to be - to deal with different kinds of people - psychoanalysts,
> > psychotherapists, psychiatrists, trained women's counsellors, and so on.
> > It's frightening to think of so many psychologists wandering the social
> > community seeking out new "victims" to indoctrinate into their way of
> > thinking - particularly if they've all studied and come from the
> > perspective
> > of behaviourism.
> >
> > Sue McPherson
> > Sociology (social-psychology and women's studies), envisioning wannabee
> > psychologists rubbing their hands with glee.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Serdar M. Degirmencioglu <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 5:29 AM
> > Subject: Re: 10000 more psychologists needed....
> >
> > Well put...
> >
> > Serdar M. Degirmencioglu
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Michael Swindlehurst <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 1:21:15 PM
> > Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] 10000 more psychologists needed....
> >
> >
> >
> > Into the valley of death rode the ten thousand - canons to the left of
> > them,
> > barons to the right of them. Yet more measures to protect the big guns
who
> > are destroying all of us.
> >
> > Mike S
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: David Fryer <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 9:59 PM
> > Subject: Re: 10000 more psychologists needed....
> >
> > Why 10,000 psychologists needed?
> >
> >
> >
> > In his paper, The Role of the Psychologist, Ignacio Martin-Baro cited
> > French
> > psychologist, Richelle, as asking Why psychologists?, why the quiet
> > proliferation of a new species and Deleule as offering an insightful
reply
> > psychology offers an alternative solution to social conflicts: it tries
to
> > change the individual while preserving the social order, or, in the best
> > of
> > cases, generating the illusion that, perhaps as the individual changes,
so
> > will the social order. Martin Baro commented when looking
dispassionately
> > at
> > the place some psychological concepts occupy in the dominant political
and
> > cultural discourse, or when pondering the role played by the majority of
> > psychologists in our countries, one has to concede that Deleule makes a
> > lot
> > of sense (Aron and Corne, 1994:37).
> >
> >
> >
> > Aron, A. and Corne, S. (Editors) (1994). Writings for a Liberation
> > Psychology: Ignacio Martin-Baro. Harvard University Press: Cambridge ,
> > Mass.
> >
> >
> >
> > David
> >
> >
> >
> > David Fryer
> > Community Psychology Group
> > University of Stirling
> > FK9 4LA
> > Scotland
> > +44 (0) 1786 467650 (tel)
> > +44 (0) 1786 467641 (fax)
> > [log in to unmask]
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Sue McPherson
> > Sent: 23 June 2006 1:38 pm
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] 10000 more psychologists needed....
> >
> >
> > Or, people could respond on this list, if they don't mind not making
> > "rapid
> > response." What do you think, Petra? You must have an opinion on this,
> > surely.
> >
> > Sue McPherson
> >
> >
> > ___________________________________ COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion
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