'Or where did christianity get such ideas in the first place?'
Of course - that too - we've learnt not to draw too impervious a line
between primitive christianity and classical magic/paganism. Guess the wyrd
thing is about trying to sort out the so-called 'indigenous' beliefs of
some people are very caught up in that project - especially in some nordic
circles with the occasional taboo about the 'land of eastern promise' ; )-
'love and do what you will'
: ) .....................................: )
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Mandrake of Oxford" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Any Germanic / Norse Studies on the
Meaning of Wyrd?
Interesting post from which I learnt something. Although I'm not so
surprised that there are christian/classical influences on European pagan
thought - its another indication that its probably a mistake to draw too
impervious a line between christianity and 'paganism'. For some neo-pagans
its maybe a uncomfortable thing - there are lines Taliesin that some have
dismissed as christian interpolations and i've heard that some 'neo-pagan'
renderings have gone so far as to edit them out. My friend the writer Jan
Fries has always taken a different, IMO more relatistic stance to these
things. Do you think Odin on the World Tree is influenced by the accounts of
Hello to all,
On 7/10/06, jacqueline simpson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Rudolf Simek's 'Dictionary of Northern Mythology'
> (1984 German edition, 1993 Eng transl) mentione a book
> by G.W.Weber 'Wyrd' (Bad Homburg, 1969). He writes on
> p. 374: "Weber has been able to show that the
> expression 'wyrd' (which glosses Latin 'fortuna') is
> unlikely tohand down heathen-Germanic thought, but
> rather a medieval view of the world based on late
> Classical-Christian beliefs, and therefore ought not
> to be brought as evidence for a belief in fatalism
> among Germanic peoples."
The obituary "Gerd Wolfgang Weber (1942–1998)" signed by Lars Lönnroth
and appeared on alvíssmál 9 (1999), pp. 93-94 (electronic edition
here: http://userpage.fu-berlin.de/~alvismal/9obitgww.pdf) had:
His doctoral dissertation, Wyrd: Studien zum Schicksalsbegriff der
altnordischen Literatur (Bad Homburg 1969), supervised by Klaus von
See, also reveals to
some extent the influence of Turville-Petre, but it is at the same
time an independent, learned,
and far-reaching study in Germanic philology, dealing with the idea of
fate in early West Ger-
manic and Old Norse texts. Weber demonstrates that the concept of wyrd
is not genuinely or
exclusively Germanic, but rather is influenced by classical Roman and
transmitted to Anglo-Saxon writers through Latin texts such as De
by Boethius. The dissertation shows that Weber, even at the earliest
stage of his career, was able to deal with a variety of Germanic and
Latin sources and draw critical conclusions from many kinds of
philological and literary evidence.