David
I think you'll find OCHRE MINE is in and has been for over 2 years!
Phil
Phil Carlisle
Data Standards Supervisor
National Monuments Record Centre
Kemble Drive
Swindon
SN2 2GZ
+44 (0)1793 414824
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-----Original Message-----
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David Evans
Sent: 29 June 2006 10:58
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Lye Pits
Lye Pit but not ochre mine, glad to see the system of assigning terms is
logical!
-----Original Message-----
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Chris Webster
Sent: 29 June 2006 10:51
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Lye Pits
Cheeky but fair!
--
Chris Webster
Somerset Historic Environment Record
Somerset County Council
County Hall
Taunton
TA1 4DY
01823 355620
________________________________
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records on behalf of
CARLISLE, Phil
Sent: Thu 29/06/2006 09:47
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Lye Pits
Cheeky!
Phil Carlisle
Data Standards Supervisor
National Monuments Record Centre
Kemble Drive
Swindon
SN2 2GZ
+44 (0)1793 414824
The information contained within this e-mail is confidential and may be
privileged. It is intended for the addressee only. If you have received
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Heritage will not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
-----Original Message-----
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Pratt, Nigel
Sent: 29 June 2006 09:25
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Lye Pits
Crikey, after 10 years of trying I finally got one accepted - all thanks
to HERFORUM!
-----Original Message-----
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of CARLISLE, Phil
Sent: 29 June 2006 09:01
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Lye Pits
Dear Nigel et al
Nice term.
I've put it in the TMT with the scope note that Peter very kindly
provided ie.
"A pit in which lye is used to clean hides/bones/etc. generally as part
of the tanning process to remove excess fat, flesh, hair, etc. from the
raw hide. The residue from these pits formed a crude soap which could
be used for various cleaning purposes."
I've tweaked the last sentence.
Broader term will be PIT
With related terms of TANNING PIT and DYE WORKS
Phil
Phil Carlisle
Data Standards Supervisor
National Monuments Record Centre
Kemble Drive
Swindon
SN2 2GZ
+44 (0)1793 414824
The information contained within this e-mail is confidential and may be
privileged. It is intended for the addressee only. If you have received
the e-mail in error, please inform the sender and delete it from your
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Any views and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author
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Heritage will not take any responsibility for the views of the author.
-----Original Message-----
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Iles, Peter
Sent: 28 June 2006 18:43
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Lye Pits
If you speak to 'older people' about 'lye' or 'lye crystals' they are
often refering to 'soda', 'washing soda' or 'soda ash'. This is normally
sodium carbonate sold as a cleaning product in a crystaline form. 'Lye'
is commonly seen as an American term for the English 'Soda'. If you
disolve it in water you get an alkaline solution which, as has been
sugested, will disolve fat and thus acts as a very good degreaser and
cleaner. This includes your hands and any other flesh it gets onto!
The chemical reaction going on is saponification - the conversion of
oils and fats into sodium stearate (hard soap) and/or potassium stearate
(soft soap) if there is potasium carbonate in the mix. A weak alkali
solution on your skin has a characteristic 'soapy' feel as it works on
your skin oils. Obviously the effect depends upon how strong you make
the solution, and if you make it strong enough you will get chemical
burns.
A more serious version of Lye is in fact potasium hydroxide or sodium
hydroxide (or a mix thereof). This is commonly called 'caustic soda'.
This is a much stronger alkali and it will strip the meat off your bones
- which is why it tells you to wear gloves and be careful. It should be
handy for disposing of unwanted bodies though (don't you find that there
is never enough space under the patio?) though the resultant
sludge/bones left over will still need to be got rid of.
As has been suggested though, archaeologically a lye pit has two main
possibilites :
A pit in which plant ashes are steeped in water to wash out the
potasium/sodium carbonates and hydroxides thus producing an alkali
solution.
Fern or kelp ash was particularly favoured for this. The resultant
liquor can be cleaned up and used in soap manufacture, but it was
commonly used in the cloth bleaching and dyeing industries, as a mordant
to 'set' colurs, partly as a bleaching agent to whiten cloth, but also
to remove the natural oils and fats from the cloth (e.g. lanolin) prior
to dyeing to help the dye penetrate the fibres. Lye can also be called
'Bowk', 'Buck' or 'Ley' in the textile industry. In the 19th century
'artificial' chemical bleaching agents/alkalis - often based on 'soda'
from the Leblanc process - generally replaced lyes as they were more
concentrated and consistent.
A pit in which lye is used to clean hides/bones/etc. generally as part
of the tanning process to remove excess fat, flesh, hair, etc. from the
raw hide. The sludge from these pits was actually a crude form of soap
and if you were desparate enough could be used.
Well, you did ask ...
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