medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Re cathedral priories: the distinction is meaningful, but not completely
hard and fast. I don't know any walled-off secular choirs a la
Winchester and Rochester, but seculars could always be keen to show
themselves as observant as their cloistered cousins.
Re Wells: yes. Bishop Jocelin instituted a daily lady mass in 1207.
Re choir stalls: my evidence is from the volume on the chapel
(Tatton-Brown and Mortimer, ed) published in 2003, to which Charles
Tracy contributed a chapter. I don't count out the possibility of having
quoted-in-a-rush however.
Re Rochester: the supposition is in the crypt, I think - though you are
right that the c13 extension there is of interest. The Lady Chapel was
called newly constructed in 1322 and was in the south transept, which
has a large blank c14 arch in its e wall, by 1389.
The dates of both the early Romanesque and early Gothic phases at
Rochester remain hotly discussed (among those of us for whom such
affairs are 'hot'!).
JC
-----Original Message-----
From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious
culture [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John
Briggs
Sent: 04 April 2006 14:11
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [M-R] Lady Chapels
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
culture
Jon Cannon wrote:
>
> Forgive me for brief replies to kind and stimulating messages:
My replies are even briefer :-)
> - the axial chapels at Old Sarum and Chichester are (differently)
> interesting, though we know the dedication of neither - axial chapels
> could and were rebuilt and rededicated to the Virgin (Norwich). But
> much more so is the even older axial chapel at Winchester. I will be
> suggesting that the Reformed Benedictine cathedral priories seemed to
> do rather well in preserving Anglo-Saxon Marian liturgical practices
> (and reinventing their spaces) after the Conquest.
But the difference is that for a cathedral priory the choir is the
exclusive
preserve of the monks.
> Nevertheless Willis and Hearn do seem to be right in one thing: that
> the first attested axial Lady Chapel is the late c12 one at Wells.
> And I like their architectural 'quotes' from Marian liturgies.
Maybe - but do we have a date for daily Ladymasses at Wells?
> Henry VII's chapel is the strongest evidence I have found for
> whole-community attendance in Lady Chapels: there are 40 stalls there,
> and they must have been for something. But it is late evidence, and
> that 'something' may not have been Marian, as the chapel was also to
> be a saint's shrine and a Royal chantry.
The Westminster choirstalls (although not their function) are described
by
Charles Tracy in his English Gothic Choir-stalls 1400-1540 (1990).
There
were originally 28 back (main) stalls and 24 substalls. There were no
return stalls.
> Nevertheless I would love to pin down this question of how Principal
> Feasts would be marked (or not) in Lady Chapels.
>
> Jim, do you have evidence for multiple burials in the Rochester Lady
> Chapel? I believe the previous Lady Chapel was against the west wall
> of the transept, and the new one could almost be viewed as a kind of
> 'nave' for it. I would love to get to the bottom of its intended
> function.
I think it's just an assumption that the south transept was previously
the
Lady Chapel, but in any case the south transept was rebuilt in the late
thirteenth century.
> I don't think there's any evidence for how either the Gundulf (if it
> is that early) or the Lanfranc era crypts at Canterbury and Rochester
> were used. Marian ritual is just one possibility. The attested early
> 'Lady crypts' are Anselm's Canterbury and Worcester.
The crypt east chapel dates from c.1200-1220. It isn't really a crypt
and
seems to be related to the 'outer crypt' phenomenon. I do wonder if the
presbytery was extended eastwards over an existing chapel.
John Briggs
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