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MEDIEVAL-RELIGION  April 2006

MEDIEVAL-RELIGION April 2006

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Subject:

Re: Lady Chapels

From:

Jon Cannon <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 4 Apr 2006 10:12:11 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

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text/plain (167 lines)

medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture

Forgive me for brief replies to kind and stimulating messages:
- the axial chapels at Old Sarum and Chichester are (differently)
interesting, though we know the dedication of neither - axial chapels
could and were rebuilt and rededicated to the Virgin (Norwich). But much
more so is the even older axial chapel at Winchester. I will be
suggesting that the Reformed Benedictine cathedral priories seemed to
do rather well in preserving Anglo-Saxon Marian liturgical practices
(and reinventing their spaces) after the Conquest.

Nevertheless Willis and Hearn do seem to be right in one thing: that the
first attested axial Lady Chapel is the late c12 one at Wells. And I
like their architectural 'quotes' from Marian liturgies.

Henry VII's chapel is the strongest evidence I have found for
whole-community attendance in Lady Chapels: there are 40 stalls there,
and they must have been for something. But it is late evidence, and that
'something' may not have been Marian, as the chapel was also to be a
saint's shrine and a Royal chantry.

Nevertheless I would love to pin down this question of how Principal
Feasts would be marked (or not) in Lady Chapels.

Jim, do you have evidence for multiple burials in the Rochester Lady
Chapel? I believe the previous Lady Chapel was against the west wall of
the transept, and the new one could almost be viewed as a kind of 'nave'
for it. I would love to get to the bottom of its intended function.

I don't think there's any evidence for how either the Gundulf (if it is
that early) or the Lanfranc era crypts at Canterbury and Rochester were
used. Marian ritual is just one possibility. The attested early 'Lady
crypts' are Anselm's Canterbury and Worcester.

Finally, yes Jim - a key point of the paper will be to emphasise the
extraordinary range of uses and forms in addition to the standard
east-end Lady Chapel. The paper focuses on English cathedrals, and on
the architectural expression of Lady altars and cult objects, rather
than simpl there existence. I have found major programmes of lay burial
for example in the Wells cloister Lady Chapel, but not Marian guild Lady
Chapels: if you have suggestions do post them.
-----Original Message-----
From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious
culture [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John
Briggs
Sent: 03 April 2006 21:10
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [M-R] Lady Chapels

medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
culture

Jon Cannon wrote:
>
> I agree with you about the Willis and Hearn paper - it has many, er,
> lacunae, in which are a few nuggets (eg the idea of Augustinian
> communities being linked to 'shoulder' Lady Chapels on the Walsingham
> model is intriguing with reference to the Bristol Elder Lady Chapel
> but seems to me to fall down as a generalization) - and it also
> includes the reference I mentioned concerning the whole community
> attending Lady Mass at Salisbury.
>
> Oddly enough I was going to post this this week, as promised. Hearn
> and Willis give a quote whose Latin does not seem to me to be as
> unequivocal about all-community attendance as their English
> statement. But that is because my Latin is quite frankly appalling.
> Any comments?: 'in parte orientali in honorem sanctae et individuae
> trinitatis et omniem sanctorum , super uo de cetero cantabitur misa
> de beata virgine singulis diebus' - the Register of st Osmund ed W H
> Rich Jones, Rolls Series lxxviii 1883-4 ii 38, quoted here on p 45.

If I was going to be charitable to them, I would suggest that Hearn &
Willis
did not intend us to assume that their statement about the whole
chapter
attending the daily Ladymass was to be inferred from their reference -
rather that it was perhaps something that 'everyone knows'. As to what
meaning *we* should take from that quotation, I would be inclined to
say
that we need rather more context. My Latin isn't particularly good, but
a
dictionary suggests that "de cetero" can mean 'finally'. I am puzzled
by
"super" (over, above? Perhaps it just means over the altar?) - but my
dictionary suggests that it can mean 'moreover', although perhaps not
necessarily in this case.

> On this theme, the number of stalls at Henry VII's [Lady] Chapel at
> Westminster Abbey, when put together with known practice at the
> community, has been used to suggest that only half a dozen monks and
> the professional choir were present for the daily Marian offices
> there - but that the whole community did indeed attend for Principal
> Feasts of the Virgin celebrated there. Such a model would work in
> many places, though this is a reasonable guess for just one place.

It would perhaps be more useful if we knew the layout of Henry III's
Lady
Chapel (I am excited by Hearn & Willis's suggestion that it was Henry
III
himself who popularised Marian devotions of this type). I would be very

surprised if principal Feasts of the Virgin were celebrated anywhere
other
than at the High Altar. (With perhaps a procession to the Lady Chapel
altar
before First Vespers of a Marian feast.) But the fact remains that the
High
Altar at Salisbury was dedicated to the Virgin, so the principal feasts
would be celebrated at that location in any event.

> I'm interested in this question because on 'theme' I will be proposing
> is that Lady Chapels can have a corporate dimension, embodying the
> community as a whole seeking the Virgin's protection.

That must be true in some sense - the problem is working out what the
practical consequences were.

> The question of the origin of lady chapels vis a vis liturgy - indeed
> the origin of the axial lady chapel per se - has been absorbing much
> of my time. John's suggestion that the chapels stimulated the office,
> rather than vice versa, seems to me to be taking things too far: but I
> take from it a very valued point [for which thanks], that the
> relationship may have been symbiotic: both liturgical practice and
> architecture developed and proliferated very rapidly and very possibly
> stimulated each other.

Well, I would see the Lady Chapels as connected with the development of
[square-ended] retrochoirs at around the same time - and we don't really

know the reason for them. But axial chapels pre-date this period. The
cathedral at Old Sarum had a prominent axial chapel. And there is the
remarkable instance of Chichester where the [presumed] Lady Chapel
pre-dated
the retrochoir, but was retained when the fire-damaged main apse was
replaced by the square-ended retrochoir. But the fact remains that the
axial chapel at New Sarum was designed and dedicated to the Holy Trinity

(and All Saints), before the institution of the daily Ladymass there -
or
anywhere else, as far as we know.

John Briggs

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