Not best known that way among poets. And he was more than a little
red in his politics. "His big attempt..." is simply inacurate. To the
very limited extent he thought that way it would probably be
Paterson. Sorry you can't hear the music.
Eliot has few children in America and has become something of an
artifact of the past, even among those who love the poems. Williams
fathered tribes and remains contemporary for many.
Mark
At 09:04 PM 3/28/2006, you wrote:
>Have read them Mark. Seriously, and you know I can do 'funnin' just as well
>as you, I think the problem with Williams is rhythmical, in that he's not
>working against anything, even at his best. This applies particulary to 'Of
>Asphodel....' which I've always felt was his big attempt, I dunno,
>artistically, to do something, you need resistance. Poor Wiilliams is best
>known for a short poem about stuff in the fridge and another about a garden
>implement. He became thereby the unwitting lareate of consumerism, think
>about it.
>
>I have this notion that WCW would have a lovely bloke to have met, EP would
>have been strange but likeable, TSE would have been 'how unpleasant to meet
>Mr Eliot' but also in a different league.
>
>Best
>
>Dave
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mark Weiss" <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 2:49 AM
>Subject: Re: Help! The grass is singing
>
>
> > I would suggest you take a look at the sequence "Spring and All" and
> > the late poems "Of Asphodel the Greeny Flower" and "The Desert
> > Music." Might help you see the stones in what you call fluff. And
> > then read the rest of Williams. I have my arguments with him, but
> > he's pretty much universally considered, after Dickinson and Whitman,
> > the essential forebear by members of almost all camps in this
> > benighted territory.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> > At 08:00 PM 3/28/2006, you wrote:
> > >it was only a "we" for fun on happy poets -
> > >
> > >i like what you say about eliot's weirdness & your description makes
> > >Sweeney A sound very appealing - I'll go & read it soonest
> > >
> > >Edmund
> > >
> > >Do 'we' think of Eliot as 'not happy' and Williams as being so? This
> > >particular part of 'we' doesn't look at things in that way at all.
>Williams
> > >certainly can seem fluffy compared to the cold weird and brilliant Eliot.
> > >The best Eliot poems, such as (of course) The Waste Land, Mr Appolinax
> > >(which is a gem that is inimatable, in that one Eliot conforms to his own
> > >stricture on Shakespeare as not bequeathing a tradition) Prufock a bit
>(it's
> > >readable and has great lines, but also sounds like Philip Larkin on
>speed)
> > >and too the real problem: Sweeney Agonistes, which is probably the most
> > >original poem of twentieth century English literature but also a
>headache:
> > >it seems to combine American vernacular with the musical hall and British
> > >oddities about domestic sex-murders and Greek tragedy, there was, and is
> > >still not, anything like that, it's a misogynist masterpiece, in tatters,
> > >it's an embarrassment, and it's brilliant.
> > >
> > >
> > >Best
> > >
> > >Dave
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